Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Strictly Surveying › So I had a message to call Steve
here’s my take- as a registrant, in Texas, who not long ago wore the title of “survey specialist” at a title company:
3 years ago now i took a gig at a local title company specifically for the purpose of reviewing surveys. survey review eats an enormous percentage of the time a title examiner has to spend getting a policy cleaned up and ready to close. they were falling further and further behind, and decided to hire somebody to handle all of the survey review. they initially called me to get a recommendation for an SIT or a good tech- just so happened i was looking to bail on a partnership at the time and, well, they weren’t shy about paying me what i needed, so i basically set up this new structure.
i was there for a couple years, and only left because i missed BEING a surveyor too much- otherwise it was a great gig. but, back to the point- the reality in the title industry is roughly parallel to tech support or customer service in so many other industries; namely, that exam is being outsourced to people on other tectonic plates whose only common DNA with most of american land title law is that they occupy territory that was once a british colony…
so, i’d say while it is frustrating- be glad they have somebody called “survey specialist”. i know that within 6 months of me starting at the title company that i was getting calls from regional and national managers at a couple of the big underwriters wanting thoughts on expanding that model for survey review. they know there are problems, but adding somebody who specializes is a step in the right direction in my book. take the opportunity to educate the guy (or lady)- even if they’ve hired somebody who doesn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground- because, ultimately, they’re there for you. and will end up benefiting you.
when i left i’d established in-house protocol for survey review, spent countless hours explaining issues and enigmas to examiners, and ultimately “chose” my replacement- an old RPLS buddy who now has a pretty posh gig before he retires.
who cares if they’re licensed or not? at least they’re paying attention.
Thats how it should be Survey in the title, have an RPLS or SIT in that position, is your buddy named Steve by any chance?
- Posted by: @scott-ellis
Yes I have a friend his title was Survey Manager, his company got a letter saying they were in violation since he had Survey in his title, he just passed the SIT exam, but they mailed the letter out before the results on the test were out, he passed the SIT exam, they call the board and the board said since he has his SIT title, he can keep Survey in his title.
In Texas to have Survey or Surveyor title you need to have RPLS or SIT.
From the Texas Occupations Code:
SUBCHAPTER F. REGISTRATION, LICENSING, AND CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 1071.251. REGISTRATION, LICENSE, OR CERTIFICATE REQUIRED.
(a) In this section, “offer to practice” means to represent by verbal claim, sign, letterhead, card, or other method that a person is registered or licensed to perform professional surveying in this state.
(b) A person may not engage in the practice of professional surveying unless the person is registered, licensed, or certified as provided by this chapter.
(c) A person may not offer to practice professional surveying in this state unless the person is registered or licensed as provided by this chapter.
(d) A person may not use in connection with the person’s name or use or advertise a title or description that tends to convey the impression that the person is a professional land surveyor unless the person is registered or licensed under this chapter.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, Sec. 1, eff. June 1, 2003.
Perhaps the “Manager” in his title was the sticking point. That is one heck of a way for the Board to congratulate a new LSIT…
“Registered” or “licensed” as defined by the chapter does not include the LSIT designation, only RPLS and LSLS. It is odd that the Board would tell someone that their title is conveying the impression that they are licensed, and then contradict the code by “allowing” an LSIT to hold the title.
I am not surprised, but if they are going to nitpick then they should probably read their own rules before harassing businesses for classifying jobs by the department they are overseeing or within.
I don’t assume someone is licensed whenever I see the word “surveyor” or “survey”, even if they have a “manager” title, unless they have the proper designation after their name. I suppose the board could argue that the public is not as familiar with the subject as we are. But if the above language is in fact correct, the TX board is going to have a hard time investigating people for simply using the word, until common usage of the word changes.
Because if the public is so easily confused, the Board is going to have to start going after all the organizations I see advertising for “Healthcare Surveyor”, “Census Survey Worker”, “Leak Survey Manager”, and “Pipeline Integrity Survey Tech” in Texas…
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman This was about the time, the board made a new rule that the company Registration number had to be printed on everything the company name was on, letterheads, business cards, website, invoices, etc.. So the board was looking at everything, I do not think they were sending out fines, or writing anyone up, they just wanted everyone to follow the new rule, and correct any rules they were breaking. My friend at the time was working for a large company with several branches and Engineers, which I think the Engineering board is more relax on this rule, so thats probably why the company made his business cards as his title. I think using Survey Manager at a large Engineering and Survey Company does make the impression of someone who is licenses, from the public’s point of view.
I am not sure why the board said since he was an SIT he can keep the title, but they did.
The Federal Government is exempt from State Licensing & Reserved Title Statutes.
They can hire me and call me “Neurosurgeon” if they want to although their own internal rules may prohibit that.
1. I don’t deal in “should”.
2. Best survey reviewer I’ve ever known is my buddy’s wife, and the only training she’s ever had was by osmosis- wherein osmosis mainly consists of smelling his farts and socks and the other pleasantries of marriage.
3. Not Steve. Mark.
Title Company Survey Specialist = Reads deed’s, compare to record instrument, check calls for closure and call’s for monuments and adjoining property owners.
Actual position = Proof reader
I can’t comment on things south of the border. They certainly will go after you here in Ontario:
http://peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/32271/la_id/1.htm
“Toronto-area man fined $15,625 for illegal use of the title “professional engineer” and use of false licence certificate
Toronto – (March 2, 2018) – On February 22, the Ontario Court of Justice fined a Toronto-area man $15,625 (including
a 25 per cent victim fine surcharge of $3,125) after his guilty plea to four counts of breaching the Professional Engineers Act by misrepresenting himself as a professional engineer. “However, you are correct in that they would not likely pursue someone claiming to be a “sanitation engineer” or “software engineer.” In fact, the software one is a bit of a sore point (article from 2000 shows how PEO missed the boat).
http://peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/21413/la_id/1.htm
In fact, there is concern about the engineering designation becoming, largely, worthless in the “new economy” as many avenues do not see the value in the designation. However, an “ethics based profession” may be especially what we need what with the advances in medical/bio engineering, autonomous driving, augmented reality, robotics, etc. Interesting times.
Times like this, I am glad I made my own business card. It introduces me as a “Party Chief for” then lists my boss and his RPLS number.
The verdict is still out on what direction our new board in Texas is headed.
In New Jersey, a person may not use the term “Professional Land Surveyor” unless they are licensed as such.
45:8-27. License required; display of license; exceptions; corporations, firms, partnerships and
associations
In order to safeguard life, health and property, and promote the public welfare, any person
practicing or offering to practice professional engineering or professional land surveying in this State
shall hereafter be required to submit evidence that he is qualified so to practice and shall be licensed as
hereinafter provided. After the date upon which this chapter becomes effective, it shall be unlawful for
any person to practice or to offer to practice engineering or land surveying in this State, or to use the
title professional engineer or land surveyor or any other title, sign, card or device in such manner as to
tend to convey the impression that such person is practicing engineering or land surveying or is a
professional engineer or land surveyor, unless such person is duly licensed under the provisions of this
chapter. Every holder of a license shall display it in a conspicuous place in his principal office, place of
business or employment.If you want to be a “member” of LSAW, you need to be a licensed surveyor in the state of Washington. You can be an associate member, or a student member, but to be a member, requires a current state license.
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!I agree fully that the person doing the survey work should be a licensed land surveyor. Truth is, however, that our own profession ignores this noble thought and has 90 percent of the survey work done by “others” with various labels, but who have no license. Ran onto a topo yesterday that was carried out by a “Field Engineer” employed by a construction company. They gave him the title and the equipment. It does appear that he knows how to utilize the equipment and, probably, did just as well as a “survey tech” working under a licensed land surveyor. How do we stop construction companies from doing this if we are going to do basically the same thing in our “Professional Survey Companies”?
TSPS may be the same way, I know I joined as a student, but only the Licensed members can vote.
Me Too, I don’t like hearing should, would, if, what it or asked to answer anything unknown without some real evidence being present. Surveying is about real things and not something that can be learned in a statistics class where they are only concerned with their chances of getting it right.
Osmosis is when a liquid or gas passes thru a membrane and leaves part of the original content behind and only the wanted part passes thru the membrane.
I have been witness to this osmosis factor, where your helpers would absorb what they were taught and after they felt they the grasshopper were ready to stepup and do the same job of their master and they would fly out and start doing survey gigs on the side or quit me and go into the survey business of doing the little projects that does not require property descriptions or drawings or being witness in court and do quite well until the neighbor hires me or someone else and their work gets public attention and they have to hideout hoping it will all blow over.
The trouble was that they kept working under the guise that they still represented me and that was when it became a firey $hitball headed for you know who, me.
Your State BOR will have questions for you when any of your employees get caught moonlighting.
That is when it is a good measure to keep hardcopy records of who worked where and when and when they were hired and when they left by whatever reasons and a file on every job that was prepared, even if the work never started or never ended.
You gotta prove that you were not there and did not send them there.
“Grasshopper wings get burned really fast while master can walk thru flames.” from some Kung Fu Movie
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