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Related to the “Trouble finding help ” post
rover83 replied 3 years, 3 months ago 21 Members · 34 Replies
- Posted by: @aliquot
however, a licensed land surveyor making less than a plumber or a electrician has made choices the lead to that situation.
I’m thinking that this is an opinion, and not necessarily based on facts that you have. I don’t have them either, but I’d guess that the average licensed electrician or plumber makes more than the average licensed land surveyor.
But it wasn’t necessarily the money that I was talking about here.
That is why I wish the survey had defined entry level clearly when it was given.
When you mention 3, 6, or 12 months, I think more in terms of probationary periods before being fully placed into the position. To me, entry level is simply a way to describe the first step on a potential career path.
On bullet point 2, I would have to disagree with the idea that a new/recent hire on a survey crew should not be able to “live” on the wages earned from that job. I’m not saying they should be able to go out and start their mortgage on a mcmansion, but given that they often end up working past a set end of work day and sometimes have a weekend sprung on them as being needed to finish up some job or other, lining up a second job so they can pay their half or third of rent on a barely reasonable apartment isn’t always so simple.
The carrot is a source of nutrition that should be provided and encourage growth instead of as an enticement of what you might get if you simply don’t get discouraged that your friends are working way less and making as much/more with better benefits at Taco Bell. And those friends have the added benefit of no cranky crew chief trying to get revenge for how he was bullied when he was starting out back in the day.
I agree with that one. I know we (Kentucky) have had discussions about this. I think (it has been a long time so I may be mistaken) that we had determine to have a technician rate that was much lower for seminars. I know we have discussed have technician sessions at conference in the past, but don’t know where we ended up on that one. I was always fortunate in that the places I started out my employer would actually send me to seminars before being licensed. I don’t think that happens as often any more.
- Posted by: @jphPosted by: @aliquot
however, a licensed land surveyor making less than a plumber or a electrician has made choices the lead to that situation.
I’m thinking that this is an opinion, and not necessarily based on facts that you have. I don’t have them either, but I’d guess that the average licensed electrician or plumber makes more than the average licensed land surveyor.
But it wasn’t necessarily the money that I was talking about here.
No, it’s not my opinion, see:
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/mobile/occupation-finder.htm
Having extensive experience with Department of Labor, it is my opinion that they get salaries of the trades spot on, but that the salaries of surveyors are too low, becasue they often count unlicensed crew members as surveyors, because of the way the wage surveys are done, so the actual difference is even bigger than reported.
I can understand why you might want to be a plumber or electrician. Both are honourable trades, that provide a living wage, and are more flexible with location than land surveying. They both however max out at much lower salaries than land surveying (with a very few exceptions).
This is as it should be. While both those trades are highly skilled, they don’t require professional judgment, and require much less breadth of knowledge.
Really? Ever heard of anyone say “No thanks, I don’t need a raise cuz I make enough”.
True.
The people who are looking for more money is… umm… nearly everyone who isn’t independently wealthy.
Eliminate them and you have a very small pool of potential employees.
Maybe it needs some spin:
It’s kind of funny, I became licensed last month and it seems like I went from a reasonably in-demand LSIT to a licensed guy without the 10+ years of project management experience that most places want. ???
I know I’ve made the comment 2 or 3 years ago that it seems like not many guys want, or have the time, to mentor and it still seems that way. I mean just look around the threads here… how many guys say they can’t wait until they retire? That’s the same attitude I’ve seen from the guys that I’ve worked with. It doesn’t really surprise me that the entry level pay and benefits are poor when the guys who could make it better perpetually have 1 foot out the door.
As a PLS you spend your career hoping against hope that the lord will send you an angel of light who will permit themselves to be mentored. After many years and many disappointments you may get a little jaded, and fail to see the opportunity when it finally arrives. And in a flash, it’s gone.
As a profession or trade, we have to pay our help. I’m paying decent i think, but haven’t figured out how to offer health care yet.
- Posted by: @mark-mayer
As a PLS you spend your career hoping against hope that the lord will send you an angel of light who will permit themselves to be mentored. After many years and many disappointments you may get a little jaded, and fail to see the opportunity when it finally arrives. And in a flash, it’s gone.
When I was a tech, I spent years and years hoping that any of the dozen or so licensees I worked under would give me more than the occasional tidbit of information.
I left several firms because I just couldn’t get the knowledge that I needed in order to level up and really understand the concepts which underpinned the methods and practices that I was being shown. I spent much of my off-hours reading surveying texts. Breezed through the FS and PS exams with self-study, but still felt I just had a bunch of random surveying concepts floating around in my head, that I understood individually but not as a whole.
In the end, going back and getting a formal education was the thing that really helped tie it all together. Despite what many licensees will claim, both teaching and mentoring are skills that have to be consciously practiced and honed.
And now that I am on the other side of that situation, it’s tough to bring along folks aiming for licensure. Not because they aren’t talented or intelligent, but because I literally don’t have enough time in the day to teach boundary law, fundamentals of boundary construction, statistics, geodesy, satellite positioning, etc. and still be productive. 99% of what we do as licensees depends upon a solid grasp of the fundamentals, which are not easily taught on the job, and which far too few PLS candidates have.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
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