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R12i as a Rover using RTK & Infill – IMU must be disabled
Hello Surveyors,
I have an ongoing post in the Trimble Access Public forum here. https://community.trimble.com/discussion/bug-r12i-as-a-rover-using-rtk-infill-imu-must-be-disabled#bm1d99a65b-92ef-4e7b-a541-01867bcdae65
Bug: R12i as a Rover using RTK & Infill – IMU must be disabled
Currently RTK&Infill survey style is not functional in Access when using an R12i as a rover because at this time, the IMU will not disable when RTK is lost. A user must switch from RTK survey style to PPK when radio link is down. I think this is a bug and if fixed allow us to work more efficiently.
Our user community in National Parks, many in the more remote parts of our nation encounter “Radio Link Down”, and would prefer this receiver function as earlier models in this regard. Luckily, I keep my R8’s, R10’s functional, and leave my R12i at the office when working remotely.
Could use some help from you all if this is an issue you wrestle with.
Thanks for the opportunity to post.
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18 Replies
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1) It’s not an issue. Read the literature for the R12i.
2) Disable the IMU (in your chosen Survey Style) & use your R12i like before.
The “tilt” feature (IMU) is only applicable to RTK shots, by design.
You are trying to use it incorrectly.
Once you’ve “started a survey style”, those settings are locked in.
When enabled, the IMU is always on, even during loss of data link.
Because you have RTK selected AND the tilt (IMU) enabled for topo shots, the survey style tells the GNSS not to disable the IMU.
Data Logging / PPK does not work with tilt (IMU).
When you attempt a PPK observation with IMU enabled, you are telling the machine to do something it is incapable/was never designed to do.
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Just check the box in access that turns off the IMU?
I can’t imagine this would be a reason to leave the R12i in the office.
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While I don’t see a problem switching from RTK to PPK style, since I have to initialize in any case, I would think the Access team could build in an automatic IMU shutoff during an Infill situation.
It’s already implemented for the Observed Control Point type within typical RTK surveys, so clearly it can be done under certain circumstances.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman -
While I don’t see a problem switching from RTK to PPK style, since I have to initialize in any case, I would think the Access team could build in an automatic IMU shutoff during an Infill situation.
The problem is that it is not possible to post calculate the tilt correction.
The quick solution has been to disallow tilt correction in any survey style that allows logging.
The receiver gets told to turn Tilt correction off.
You can see the difference in the Rover options between RTK and RTK&Logging styles.
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The problem is that it is not possible to post calculate the tilt correction.
For sure, that’s easy to understand, but in this case the goal would be to ignore tilt corrections as soon as the user switches to PP mode, immediately prior to initialization. I wouldn’t want to try to post-calc tilt, and I don’t think Joel is looking to do that either.
The receiver switches to a converging APC solution on the fly during an RTK survey for observed control points, even when the IMU is enabled – surely it is possible to just log raw GNSS data during an infill session?
It makes perfect sense to require tilt be disabled during RTK + Logging sessions.
But since operation in Infill mode entails no RTK solution by definition, I would think there should be no concern with simply ignoring/turning off the IMU at that time.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman -
I would agree – but the possibility that someone would unknowingly continue surveying still using the pole on an angle is regarded as too big a risk of getting bad numbers in the job
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it’s kind of like leaving the gust lock in place while taxiing and then rolling out for take off….
should have done a more thorough preflight….
the devices can’t be expected to do everything….at some point someone can write a procedure and train people….ftlog…
carry on.
drafting all day is taking a toll finally…
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the devices can’t be expected to do everything….at some point someone can write a procedure and train people….ftlog…
Yeah, I can’t say I disagree with Jim, even though I agree with Joel about having the option to seamlessly transition from RTK+IMU to PPK without IMU.
Flexibility and customizability are absolutely crucial in my opinion, but that means that your staff have to be not only well trained in the basics, but also in the understanding of what it means when they push this button rather than that button. Checklists can only go so far.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman -
yep.
well, maybe too far in regards to that rampy that took Q400 out for it’s final flight. That’s a bit more than just push this button…
lol.
it’s a continuum for sure.
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I would agree – but the possibility that someone would unknowingly continue surveying still using the pole on an angle is regarded as too big a risk of getting bad numbers in the job
We are adults now and don’t need a Nanny anymore.
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Jim Cox post is correct. The RTK&Infill survey style is, on the R12i a PPK only solution. I’m quite familiar with this survey style, since it remains essential, or it was prior to the R12i as a rover in remote locations when Radio Link is down. Happens all the time to me, and I think I represent a pretty large pool of R12i users across our National Parks. Yes, we can switch survey styles, but try doing that several times in a job. Not fun. Tapping IMU on off btw is not possible with the RTK&Infill style engaged.
Our users are willing to go bubble level and keep working without tilt correction. That’s a workflow we are well versed in.
Were also well versed in intermittent RTK, and the vagaries of intermittent cellular mobile broadband in the deep recesses of our National Parks.
Two years ago, I thought I was missing something. I’m just asking for an improvement and a reasonable “re-enhancement” by the Access team to require tilt to be disabled at switch to PP infill, and more importantly re-engage tilt functionality when RTK returns.
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depending on the sky, and nowadays with like a million satellites, you can take a static shot with a few minutes as long as you’re using a base and not the vrs model. it’s actually a great way to extend a field day when you’re not able to use vrs, and when you go beyond the rtk base.
if you’re doing PPK anyway, it’s just a different flavor of the post process.
my $0.02
YMMV
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I don’t like the IMU being on. I use it when I need it, but otherwise it’s off. But, I don’t have the R12i only an R10
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I think you might be inclined (see what I did there?) to think otherwise if you were running the R12i.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman -
Probably true Rover, and I might be using RTX and or Xfill instead of RTK infill which I’ve never cared for. Xfill is really useful.
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@Jitterboogie – great suggestion regarding a static position with a local base.
Thanks everyone. This is, as always, my go to site for options in navigating around software/hardware obstacles to get a job done. Like to thank all of you who take a moment from drafting or have a few moments to hit the internet during a static observation to help others and share your knowledge (and opinions).
Maybe I can meet some of you in Vegas this coming November (I co-presented at the 2022 conference on Scanning the Fat Bears of Katmai).
If you feel inclined to help persuade the Access team on this functionality, feel free to add to the post! link above.
Thanks for your time – From Alaska – Joel.
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FYI, Leica’s GS18i works similar, you can NOT log raw data with IMU on, it forces you to either use IMU with no raw data stored OR turn IMU off and then you can store raw data. I leave IMU off unless I need it, because even with real time data collection, I also collect raw data as a method to post process if the need should arise.
IMU/tilt corrections are however very handy and over last two years I have made good use of it when appropriate, in fact I have collected shots I never would of been able to get leveling up. When I do those types of shots I collect a series of six shots and then repeat that series after a time offset. Bear in mind these are instantaneous shots, hit measure and it instantly stores whatever it has, so good practice would be more than one shot. Ends of culverts are another good use of tilt measurements so you don’t have to try and level up. And finally with the GS18i imagery measurements you must use the tilt as you are just walking around capturing images from which you then pick points to measure, rod height and leveling are irrelevant in that capture procedure.
SHG
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From Trimble Access release notes for 2024 version (see attached).
IMU tilt compensation is now available during RTK & Infill!
Now were back to what I was possible with earlier models of receivers. Only one survey style (RTK & Infill) when radio link for a myriad of reasons goes down.
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