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Pincushion of the Day
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49 Replies
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Well, they are at least TRYING to be in the same place!
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Case of “I can measure better than you… see!” or “I didn’t see your rebar there.”
Unfortunately I suspect it is probably the latter.
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Same surveyor?
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Same surveyor?
No.
MH -
I dug up one exactly like that about 4 or 5 years ago. Other than the obvious, what made it worse is that the original one was called for and described in nice detail on the subdivision plat of record.
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I had just started working for a firm that had performed surveying on a mall site since it was built in the 70’s and we were contracted in 2001 to perform another ALTA on the site. First day, I went with the crew and we recovered 90% of the off site points and the mall boundary itself. I wasn’t going to make it there the second day but had confidence in the crew (chief was my little brother who I hadn’t work with on boundary jobs before but he seemed to know his stuff) and explained what additional pick up I needed. Since everything was fitting together nicely I told them to set the few points that were missing once they had finished up unless they found something that wasn’t fitting everything else. I get a call near the end of the day “Hey everything else fits exactly except one point so we started setting the pins. I was just calling in to see if you wanted us to set anything at the corner of Sears, we’re into the building by a 0.10′. I looked at the previous ALTA and it shows the building 0.15′ over the line with a reference iron set. I tell him we should be good but look for the reference when he says ” yeah, I seen that too but we’ve got 3 other pins here all within 0.25′ and it’s confusing”. I asked about the other pins, turns out they we all stamped with the name of the company I was working for! He said the reference pin was off our calculated line by 0.05′. How the hell are you going to set a pin right next to another pin that damned close and how the hell is setting another pin clearing anything up??? He finally starts laughing and telling me he was kidding, just wanted to get my reaction. I told him to shoot everything up and bring it back. Problem was he had pulled the others that didn’t fit without me getting to look at everything first. We had a long discussion over that, at the end it was my name, my decision. 4 pins within 0.25′ of each other, all with different P.S. numbers but all the same company name trying to mark the same point!
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What state is that in?
I have often wondered what the response would be if you would create a slide show of these and invite all those people to your next society meeting and shame them.
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I have a presentation showing photos of pincushions I’ve collected since 1994. I have spoken to each of the surveyors who set them. While there are many nuances and circumstances, the underlying reason this happens is “I disagree with what I found”. The underlying cause, in my own opinion, is a fundamental lack of respect for the work of our colleagues. We love the work we do, and disrespect the work of our predecessors.
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Here’s one I found in early January – what makes this especially pitiful is that it is the same company.
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Those are like many modern exams. Multiple choice….
😉
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I’m in Florida. I believe the FSMS has discussed pincushioning before.
MH -
Wish I had a pic to share of the five different radius points I found once in a cul-de-sac.
MH -
That could be me.
I go to a job, start looking for markers and my I-man says “Larry we did this before”. I say “no, Sly, I looked in the job index and we haven’t been here”. He says “Yea, we set up right here and shot one there and set one there”. He kicks aside a few leaves and there is the nail with the ribbon only we use.
Has anyone ever found a pincushion with their own caps? No, I doubt anyone would admit to that.
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Stone monument set as part of an 1868 subdivision. Shown and called for on a 1926 re-subdivison of this portion of the 1868 map as the corner and on the old tract line.
I have done numerous surveys on both sides of the tract line and everything works great using the stone monument, no problems. Now in 2019 an out of the area surveyor comes in and sets a rod 1 foot away.
PLS NJ & NY, PP NJ -
I have witnessed some surveyors that will look up only the recording information of the deeds and drawings on record and never get any copy or read the information in the deeds of the adjoining properties.
If it is not in their deed, to them any other monument they come across is rejected if it don’t fit the math.
When I find someone has made a pincushion, I usually take a picture, look them up in the directory and send them an email of the situation or include it in a text message with a “WTF are you thinking” message.
@ Larry Best – after surveying in this area since 1974, I get to feeling dejavu often.
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Heck, sometimes the pin we find might just be wrong. I set a pin .37ft away from a found pin today thus creating a pin cushion. We were surveying two lots in a platted subdivision that are roughly 900 feet deep and 300 feet wide. One of the lots was altered several years after the original survey, shortening the back line by 50 feet. The back line joins a much larger parcel that extends well beyond the subdivision in question. We found the original corners of the two lots and found the newer pin to be .37ft inside the property. We reset the pin on the subdivision line.
I try my utmost best to accept found monuments and will only set a new one with much deliberation. In my survey area, most of the older plats and many of the newer ones only describe the corners as IPF or IPS. Very few capped pins around here. Determining wether a monument is original or not can be darned near impossible.
Iƒ??m not talking about haggling over .10ft. I like to leave the record calls the same if at all possible too. Iƒ??ve heard some argue that if they see a retracement survey that has the same calls as the previous survey, the current one must be just a copy. I look at the calls as a means to get the next guy to the points in the ground.
I have a much bigger problem when I see a plat that shows ƒ??corner is .03ft north and .04ft west of #4 rebar found. Usually guys coming over to our area from Atlanta. Iƒ??ve never seen any of our local guys doing that.
Sorry to ramble
David
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It would have to be a extrodinary circumstance for me
to do that and 0.37' is far from extrodinary.
Heck a lot of field run surveys have more than that
in traverse error.
No sir, I don't think 0.37' in a rural situation would
require me to set another rebar next to a found rebar.
Accept it and sleep well at night. -
To each his own. If this had been an interior subdivision corner, Iƒ??d look at it quite differently.
Iƒ??d have a harder time sleeping if I had made a straight line crooked just because the previous guy screwed up.
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Maybe. Just maybe. The other guy isn’t the one with an error.
We started to set a bar today that would have been off by about three feet. It was to go at the intersection of two lines. The first time we had goofed on one end of one line when we entered the data to create the line. The primary reason we caught it in the field and not later while drafting was because we had been closely following a fence line with a series of points. We immediately knew to double-check ourselves. Saved a trip back to correct one bar.
Three weeks ago the opposite was true. A fence deviated from where it was supposed to be at one place along a 3600-foot right-of-way by nearly 20 feet. Oops!
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I found 3 with the same PLS number in a 2 foot bubble once. Called the guy and his first question was, ‘Is one of them close?’
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