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New engineers vs land surveyors and others
holy-cow replied 11 months, 1 week ago 15 Members · 30 Replies
Of all categories of engineering graduates, Civil Engineers have traditionally been on the bottom end of the pay scale for some crazy reason.
I poll the graduate(unlicensed but EIT passed) engineers on job sites and they seem to be making pretty good coin for a near zero experience level and huge lack of knowledge base. They’re eager to please and always seem to have asinine questions for me about the way I should be laying out the points, but it’s all part of who their mentors are…some are far better than others, and it goes the same with survey. No or poor mentoring leads to status quo.
Things are lucrative now. I have more than doubled rates in recent years. Still more work than time to do it. Turning away jobs multiple times per week.
Wouldn’t you agree that if a surveyor made $1 million a year (not the owner of the business, but a PLS working there), then we would be overwhelmed with new applications for the survey tests?
So, things are not lucrative ENOUGH. I have this discussion sometimes, but perhaps the rates should be doubled again.
-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.My daughter is a civil engineering grad and has passed her EIT with 3 years of experience. In Illinois PLS wages have increased a lot but engineers are still making more money. My opinion is the engineers deserve it also. The degree is harder to get and the license exam is harder. That doesn’t necessarily make it fair though.
My daughter is a civil engineering grad and has passed her EIT with 3 years of experience. In Illinois PLS wages have increased a lot but engineers are still making more money. My opinion is the engineers deserve it also. The degree is harder to get and the license exam is harder. That doesn’t necessarily make it fair though.
Dave, similar question as for HC:
How has the underlined claim been determined to be factual? Is it 10 times harder as HC claimed? Or only about 25% harder as BLS wages for the civil and surveying professions would seem to indicate based on average salaries?
From a quick look, it appears that Illinois requires surveying applicants have a 4-year degree either in land surveying or other with additional surveying and science based requirements. Are the engineering courses actually harder than surveying courses or are they perceived as harder because 1) that has been the claim for ages 2) the math scares some people off or 3) the people in engineering programs versus surveying courses are not really following their interest but the dollar signs that they see so they are less engaged in the material.
My experience was in a Civil Tech program, but I know for me the surveying courses were as or more heavily maths intensive (Prof. Andrew Kellie made sure of that!) but I did not mind because it was my interest. The engineering courses (structural steel design under Dr. Timothy Philpot (RIP), who was then a recent PhD graduate from Purdue was no joking matter) were no more difficult, but were certainly less interesting to me.
As to the exams, I can not say if the PE or the PS exam is harder because I’ve never met the requirements to sit for the PE exam where I live. Besides, I’m a Surveyor. But I can say from my personal experience that the fundamentals of engineering exam was much easier than the fundamentals of surveying exam – for me.
My daughter went to the same school I did, SIU Carbondale. With my degree I could have been a PE in several states but not Illinois. There are more math requirements for the engineering program but certainly not 10 times harder. I looked at my daughters sample test for the EIT test thinking I could get at least 50% correct. I was a little shocked at how difficult it was, they had calculus problems on it. It’s also been a while since I graduated in 1984.
A guy lights a firecracker then walks away to listen to Gary Kent all day, live and in person.
Some people.
Imagine myself getting an engineering degree just so I can take a pay cut.
Social status is the underlying motivation for many actions. Engineering will always be a higher status profession than surveying and that alone will attract more people to it.
Wages for new engineers will consistently be far higher than for new land surveyors.
Not around here. Surveyor’s are in substantially higher demand and the employers know it. If anything it should be identical, but each firms needs are different.
The entry level job for USPS now pays around $22 per hour. Have a fellow who worked for me in his youth who works for a city in one of the higher employee levels. His 22 year old son who works for USPS since straight out of high school will soon catch up to him salary-wise. Stress level is far higher in the city job.
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