Liability
Oof, yeah, I have definitely seen target fixation result in some near-accidents while working in the ROW. Experienced it myself occasionally riding motorcycles too. Usually it’s more of a problem at high speeds.
In theory, if adequate signage is placed ahead of the crew, drivers should be expecting humans up ahead, which will greatly cut down on that phenomenon.
When doing work in the wintertime way up north, I would throw out the mandatory orange diamond signs, and then attach a cheap white blinking bicycle light to the sign, such that the beam only illuminated the sign (and was not going into drivers’ eyes). Obviously this is just anecdotal but the “flashing sign” really seemed to get the attention of drivers better and helped slow traffic by the time they got to where we were working.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
I cannot answer your question as to liability, but in Texas, if you are surveying along a DOT roadway, there are explicit instructions/guidelines for establishing notice. Signage @ 500′ & 1500′ before and after area you are working in, flashing safety lights, vests, etc. TxDOT does not allow working on their roadways during rain.
I would believe that a company could be proven to have liability if the state DOT guidelines, if any, were not met.
CalTrans has a permitting process if you set foot on their ROW while surveying, administered at the District level. Haven’t a clue on fees. In many cases if you need access to a control station their crews will translocate it to a (your) station outside of the ROW. To wit:
“Permits for private surveys within access-controlled right-of-way are issued only for proposed
highway improvements or for data collection but only when District Surveys cannot provide the
required information from within State right-of-way to the private surveyors within a reasonable
amount of time. All survey permits on conventional highways must include unaltered Special
Provisions. Districts must cooperate with private surveyors by furnishing necessary information
and survey reference points as needed to avoid work within access-controlled right-of-way.
Authorized surveys are restricted to areas of comparatively low traffic volume when the work
can be performed safely and there is no interference to public traffic.”
It’s been a couple of years since I last got a Caltrans permit, but I think I paid $160 last time. The bigger problem is negotiating and then implementing the traffic control plan.
But the last time I needed to get in the ROW I just jumped the fence. It was on a rural stretch of freeway, the monument I needed was about 10′ inside the fence, the nearest travel lane was another 100′ our so, and the fence was just a four-footer. Waiting for a permit or for a Caltrans crew to transfer the point would have entailed a level of cost that simply wasn’t justified by conditions; the principle of “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission” won out.
Sorry to hear about the accident Matt and glad everyone is ok.
My last experience with Caltrans was in a city that wanted to install a left turn pocket in the existing raised median to access a shopping center. The engineer wanted about a thousand feet of the median in length and the width of the median and each lane next to it wide. I suggested the city obtain the encroachment permit and provide the traffic control. The day of the survey (many, many months later) we arrived on site and the city had cones, arrow board vehicles and flashing lights for a half mile in each direction. Just as we were finishing up the Caltrans inspector showed up and asked to see our permit. I didn’t have it. I said one of the city guys must have it. He said we would have to pick up until he saw the permit. That would have taken two hours to pick up and another two to reset everything! As it turned out the city guys left it at city hall and had to go get it. That was just enough stalling for us to finish.
And the whole job had to be done in metric dimensioning.
My favorite example of Caltrans overreach occurred in Tiburon on SF Bay in Marin County. The main street in town is still a state highway that ends at a ferry terminal, but in appearance and function it’s a small-town commercial street. I was doing a topo of a parcel and had the gun set up with one leg on the sidewalk, complete with protective cones. A Caltrans inspector driving by stopped and asked to see my permit. Clueless, I said “Permit for what?” He said if I didn’t have a permit I’d have to move out of the ROW. He stood there while I moved the instrument 2 feet and set a new control point under it. Sheesh.
In theory you need a permit in Oregon as well. In Oregon’s case it is for any state R/W, which in my town includes the one-way couplet running through all four blocks of downtown. I say in theory because I don’t know many people that ever get them. On the plus side, they are blanket in nature.
Thanks. Everyone is fine. Just have to wait on the truck to be fixed.
@tom-bushelman
Thanks. Everyone is fine. Just have to wait on the truck to be fixed.
easier to get forgiveness than permission” won out.
I doubt forgiveness would be cheap.
I think CalTrans rules are extortion. Being over the fence but not close to traffic should not be regulated.
.[ . . . ]
But the last time I needed to get in the ROW I just jumped the fence. It was on a rural stretch of freeway, the monument I needed was about 10′ inside the fence, the nearest travel lane was another 100′ our so, and the fence was just a four-footer.
[ . . . ]
Woo-hoo, I’ve done the same in State ROW, State & National Parks and even Military bases. The key is to get in and out within minutes so the local John Law can’t show up fast enough to catch you. If not, when accosted especially on private lands admit your trespass and exit post haste, a valid defense in most States.
I doubt forgiveness would be cheap.
So far it hasn’t been bad. I’ve been kicked out of Caltrans ROW several times, and in each it was just a matter of getting out, with no administrative follow-up. Same with UPRR, though they seem to be getting more ornery all the time.
When working for the big municipality we had to cone off a right turn lane. There was room for drivers to turn right from the lane to the left of it. One guy decided his little car would fit between the cones and he would turn right from the right lane. Well, his car didn’t fit between the cones and with his front wheel drive he wedged a cone such that when he finished his turn the wheel wouldn’t straighten out. We watched as he grunted and groaned trying to remove the cone from his left front steering mechanism. None of us offered to help. When he finally got it out I casually walked over and took our cone back with out saying a word.
You can see the look in their eyes as they lock in on you instead of the road and oncoming traffic.
Only if they happen to take their eyes off their phone first….
Jeff D.
@mike-marks Yes, get in and get out; and the fact that FDOT employees knock off early.
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