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Does any one here know of a successful prosecution for destruction of a survey monument?
protracted replied 4 years, 5 months ago 21 Members · 55 Replies
- Posted by: @duane-frymire
So, another analogy might be timber trespass. Quite a few prosecutions for this where no video evidence of the thief. Dollar values of fines and damages are quite high though. Could be because of evidentiary problems, but circumstantial evidence and motive would seem to be fairly overwhelming in the case of a monument removed.
I figured most timber trespass was someone logging their own property and extending into an adjoiner. The circumstantial evidence of the perpetrator’s identity is a lot stronger there than in the case of a missing monument.
. Still similar I think. If a single tree goes missing with no logging next door, that would be like a monument “missing”. But much like a logger going over the line, prosecution for monument removal would normally be associated with a larger ongoing dispute between the neighbors.
@dougie
I am getting close to being an old man, not sure if I am a “men of old” quite yet. 🙂
-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.@j-penry wrote a good article in American Surveyor ; about monument preservation.
Jerry is a huge advocate for the preservation and perpetuation of our beloved survey monuments…
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!I don’t know of any successful prosecutions here in Georgia. I came across this ROW monument while traversing. The home owner can add it to the garden. Perhaps paint it green….
Huh. Well, if a cop pulled me over for 1 mph I’d fight that in court all day long, and it would probably be worth it with the inflated prices of speeding tickets now-a-days. Their instrument isn’t nearly that good so between that and human error I think one could successfully argue the point pretty easily.
- Posted by: @bstrand
Huh. Well, if a cop pulled me over for 1 mph I’d fight that in court … successfully argue the point pretty easily.
You being from out of town (or you wouldn’t have been pulled over) would go back at an inconvenient time to argue it before a LOCAL magistrate?
Call me cynical about your chanced.
. Although WSDOT- my employer- has been doing better, I still wouldn’t mind seeing some of the engineers in the agency jailed for monument destruction via paving over them, etc. (WA BORPELS considers any monument not readily accessible, e.g., covered by pavement, as destroyed. Defined in WAC 332-120-020). Not to mention substantial failure of numerous governmental entities to file DNR Permits to Destroy as required.
It’s an iron pipe dream for me, though…
The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found.Yes, I’m aware of BORPELS being the licensing authority. However- although the BORPELS has the teeth- it seems as though public agencies are gummed by them at the very worst.
We should indeed be held to a much higher standard than the private sector, as we are presumed correct by our very nature. Not to mention that we should consider protecting the public (and adjoiner’s rights) as a fundamental duty.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found.WSDOT has a long history of conflict with the Washington State Board, much of it pre-dating my time in the area. I’m told that for a long time WSDOT policy was that the licensing and recording laws did not apply to them, and that furthermore they were under no obligation to share anything with non-WSDOT persons. It’s much better now, but Oregon DOT is still much easier to deal with.
A while back I found some fresh WSDOT monuments – apparently offsets to a section corner – and went seeking information. I called the local office and asked for the Survey Manager. The phone answerer grilled me about the purpose of my call. Then I was transferred to a public affairs person, who grilled me again. A friendly grilling, but a grilling nonetheless. A week later I got some data sheets from the public affairs persons email. Never did speak to any surveyors there.
@norman-oklahoma
There are not very many surveyors left in WSDOT, and the few that remain are not appreciated by the deified civil engineering staff who call the shots. In my opinion, it is an agency that believes it has absolute immunity or nearly so. That said, there was a period of time- roughly between the mid-1990s to about 2010, maybe 2012 or so- where surveyors were not as disrespected as they are now.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand…
The only superior evidence is that which you haven’t yet found.A variation on this topic, “Is it illegal to destroy survey monuments in Oregon?” I had assumed yes, but when I went looking, there were various provisions for the replacement and perpetuation of survey monuments that “need to be disturbed” but I didn’t see an outright prohibition.
ORS 209.140, 209.150, and 209.155, https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors209.html, cover the provisions for replacement pretty well. ORS 92.070(5) provides for a highly limited scenario for replacement of survey monuments without filing a survey but doesn’t address the destruction. https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors092.html
Maybe these aren’t in ORS 209 and 92 and I’m looking in the wrong places. Any ideas?
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