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- Posted by: @ken-salzmann
Eat things that you always eat the day of the test, and a few days before; it is not the time to try some exotic new food that makes your stomach rebel.
Two co-workers and I who were taking the PS & Maryland State specific together stayed in a hotel near the testing site to save a 70 mile drive the morning of the exam. Closest restaurant was Hooters. I do not recommend 2 dozen hot wings and ten or so drafts the night before the exam (especially the old notorious MD storm drain exam – with a pass rate some years around 15%). Was so hung-over (plus upset stomach) that my hands were shaking for the first hour or so.
Passed. Wife always tells me I was a moron. My (albeit biased) line of though is if you take the test hung-over and fail you’re a moron; however if you pass, you’re a legend.
- Posted by: @klnsdwn84
If you have failed the FS Test twice and managed to pass on Lucky Number 3, what did you do to pass it finally? How did you do your study schedule? How long did you study for? What materials did you use to study? What was your primary focus?
Also, I’m a weak test taker, and I’m weak in math. Was any of you the same? If so, what did you do for that?
Please help!
I was working as a construction inspector on a sewer system when my first test was scheduled. Had to work late Friday so I stayed home and slept then got up at 5 am to drive to the test site. Hadn’t had a chance to study and failed by 4 points. 6 months later same thing happened and failed by 2 points. 6 months later was working on topo for a sewer system across a small town and was able to take off Friday to refresh a few things and drive over and stay in a hotel so I didn’t have to wake at the butt crack of dawn to get to the site. Finally passed it with ease.
Moral to the story. Get rest, relax don’t put yourself under the gun and refresh your knowledge don’t “cram”. Either you know it or you don’t. Maybe wait until you have some of the skill down better. Just because you have your time in and have some “education” doesn’t always mean your ready. Most important…relax.
Did something similar, for a state specific that I had no interest in getting. Luckily it didn’t start till 2pm the next day. Passed
@jph King
@james-fleming My youth is proof that being a legend and a moron at the same time is completely possible..
There is really only one nut to crack for the calculator races. Get where you can convert a bearing to a coordinate easier than breathing. Polar to rectangular. Then get where you can inverse it back easier than breathing. Rectangular to polar. This is the universal solvent. Pair it with knowing how to traverse through the radius point when they throw you a curve.
- Posted by: @skeeter1996Posted by: @klnsdwn84
If you have failed the FS Test twice and managed to pass on Lucky Number 3, what did you do to pass it finally? How did you do your study schedule? How long did you study for? What materials did you use to study? What was your primary focus?
Also, I’m a weak test taker, and I’m weak in math. Was any of you the same? If so, what did you do for that?
Please help!
If you have to study for it, you shouldn’t be taking it
I studied until I felt like there was nothing in the practice exams that I could not handle with ease. I passed both exams on the first attempt.
I remember the FS computer based back in 2015. The hardest exam out of all. I suggest having a pencil and paper ready right after you get out of the test and write down every single problem you can remember. Get the NCEES practice test as this is the closes thing to the actual exam. The rest of the practice test, such as George M. Cole’s and others are a bit outdated but doesn’t hurt to have them and practice with them. Read front to back and do every single exercise from the latest Surveyor Reference Manual.
If you need to take a trigonometry/pre-calculus refresher course, take it. Practice how to solve for X for every single formula for solving triangles, especially those from horizontal/vertical curves: the test likes to give you problems that can’t be easily solved plugin-in a formula, so solving for X is crucial. Bring an acceptable programmable calculator (HP35s). Program it yourself with Surveying formulas (takes more than 8 hrs) but trust me you’ll learn how to use it inside out and you’re going to save time during the test.
Like some have said, you need to auto evaluate yourself, much like a boxer or any successful athlete does to improve. What are your weak areas, both in topics or as a person? What made you feel helpless during the test and how you can prevent that? You have to ask yourself a lot of questions. And actually this is key after you get your license and start practicing to solve a boundary problem… coming to think of it, this whole process of the test, the failing and passing the test, is giving you the building blocks to become a good surveyor.
When I took my test the first time I never cracked a book and did not expect that I would pass it, and I didn’t. From then on, I hit the books hard after taking notes when I got home from the end of both days of the exam. I felt fairly comfortable the second time but kept studying waiting for my results. This time I passed one part, I believe it the fundamentals part but also passed the State specific part.
I couldn’t figure out what I did wrong to not pass the entire exam and kept the candle burning at both ends. I was sitting in my recliner one Sunday afternoon, sipping on a cold brew and watching an NFL day when I had a revelation pop into my head. After countless hours studying both boundary law and case law I had been tricked into answering questions the way I assumed that the courts would rule instead of simply answering that the client should consult an attorney. The next time, it was a walk in the park when I figured out where I went wrong.
I’ve heard that there are 4 different levels of difficulty on the exam and I believe it based on what I’ve seen. The most important thing to do is to answer the questions you can first and skip the ones you need to work on, saving them to go back to after you have answered the ones you can. After a second round of spending time on the questions that need work to answer, spend as much time as you can working on them until time is running out. Some will say that there should be an equal number of answers to A, B, C & D, again, I don’t know if that is true, but take a few minutes to balance out your guesses before time expires and above all, answer EVERY question.
Keep in mind that in most instances, it’s not about what the correct answer is but more about what the best answer is.
When you take the FS, NCEES will provide a Fundamentals of Surveying Reference Handbook since the test is closed book. The Handbook is available from their website as a pdf. The pdf version is 187 pages long and has a table of contents that will help you find what you need. I’m told that the version that is available on the computer during the FS exam has no table of contents. Know this handbook inside and out so that you generally know how the information is arranged and categorized and can quickly get to the area of interest without having to waste time. It’s primary headings are Abbreviations and Acronyms, Conversions and Other Useful Relationships, Mathematical and Surveying-Related Formulas, Economics, Ethics, Safety, and Appendices.
A former employee took the FS during his senior year as a requirement for one of his classes. He was busy with other classes and exams, etc and did not have time to devote to studying specifically for the FS. He did not pass on the first attempt. After graduating he picked a date to retake the FS and began studying the areas in which it stats from the previous attempt said he was weak. He was blown away when he went through the handbook and saw the depth of information provided and realized that had he known where to find the info during the first test, he likely would have passed it. He blew it away on the second attempt.
I would study this handbook thoroughly before I started with the practice tests or the books of sample questions. This way when you find a question where you don’t know the formula or the conversion factor you can look it up in the handbook and this will solidify your familiarity with it. Know the information in the sections on Economics, Ethics, Safety, and the reference material in the Appendices. They’re telling you what is on the test and giving you a bunch of free points if you just know where to find them in a timely manner.
- Posted by: @half-bubble
Up at 4am and study until you have to do something else. Get the practice test and see how you do working it cold in the time allotted. You could probably spend a morning researching each question and formulating a strategy for how to attack that kind of problem on the live exam (or in the field).
Figure out how to run the calculator with your non-writing hand. If you are not using an HP35 consider doing so, because the HP “reverse Polish” way of doing things will help in writing out your intermediate calcs. If you are not writing out all your intermediate calcs on scratch paper as you work the exam, you are handicapping yourself.
Just a second opinion. If you have not already committed yourself to a life of polish notation, consider sticking with a natural display calculator. HP’s were superior for speed in the old days before “scientific” natural display calculators became affordable and widely available. It seems mentors and proffesors have passed on that once justifiable preference to their students.
It takes some convincing, but I have been able to convert a few proffesional mathematicians and physisisists. Surveyors however are a little more stubborn.
For the test, use whatever calculator you are most comfortable with, assuming its allowed by NCEES. 10% more efficiency isn’t worth the stress of a less familiar calculator.
I just took the exam FS. In June. I am a poor test taker and dislexic. I work surveying and make hay small square bales. I used many of the materials listed for prep. I listened to pod cast on way to work that nsps mentoring Mondays etc. ngs older webinars. Just listening and also while on tractor cutting and baling hay. I used all my old military geodetic surveying books and went through them. And every practice exam I could get my hands on. I practiced every Saturday night solving hz vt curves to where I learned the calculator and could solve any problem related to hz or vt curves in less than a minute. Read up on basic rsi gis information. Be able to inverse like mentioned above. And almost every question that is math related eliminate 2 answers before starting. Know how to use scale factor for grid to geodetic distance and back. Know how to calc sea level correction. Know how to calc area and area of a circle sector etc. know priority of calls know boundary law definitions and be able to apply them. Anything related to levels rod reading. DMD bowditch adjustment long hand. End area method. Volumes by any shape. But the best advice is to read the question and eliminate the ones they can??t be. Common sense experience. Example if you are given a grid distance and need geodetic distance Which is longer grid or geodetic. Then solve it. You can do it. If an old man who has been away from academia as long as i have can do it you can.
When I took these I bought the study guide and sample tests from NCEES. If you can figure out how to do the problems in those (they provide the answers) you should be in pretty good shape, a few of their practice questions were even on the test word for word.
- Posted by: @jmorgan
I bought the study guide and sample tests from NCEES.
How many questions are there in those?
@norman-oklahoma 50 to 55 questions. In example NCEES book. I had one from 1993 that was a bound book and another from 2000 then the most recent one. I also downloaded exam and dot guides and practice exams like from CDOT. I just went through everything I could get my hands on. I would work 10 problems one night. Next night anything i missed or was not sure of i would study it from various books and sources. Then work another 10 problems next night and just kept repeat that as well as working through boundary law books etc. The only thing I did not and wish I had was review matrix equations. Those few took me the longest because i had to go way back in my old brains to remember the rules and I doubt I answered those correctly. I ramped up about 2 months out every night almost at-least an hour sometimes more. The practice exams from various sources were great because you worked through problems like hz curves from different applications as far as questions went. I read a lot so i did completely read through clark on boundary 2nd edition over last year. And went back to specific topics that were on practice exams. Used my old RE Buckner survey computation manual. Old seminar hand outs from the 90??s and read and then back to text books. The dot survey manuals from various states on the internet were great as a quick overview to see if you needed more attention to different topics. I could see not passing if you don??t pay attention to details in the questions. Several questions gave info in various units simply problems but answers were in totally different units. I think experience is the best tool. When looking at a question you should kinda know what the answer will be like turning an angle and knowing something is wrong like knowing it cant be over 90 degrees. Or shooting a distance and knowing you must be locked on something besides prism. Even vertical curves hand drawing it out you can kinda guess if the elevation is higher or lower. We didn??t have paper we had some dry erase marker and pad. Not even a napkin to wipe it off. I went through more security to take this test than I did working for an intel agency no joke. They x rayed my eye glasses. Patted down. Could not have my calculator case only calculator no hat. No eye glass case only glasses. Nothing in pockets. Oh and i was almost kicked out because i was warned about my darn covid mask kept falling off my nose. Darn glasses kept fogging up. But I got through the darn thing. Lol
@norman-oklahoma Like said above these had about 50-60 questions, they are test specific if you get the FS book and can do the questions in it then you should pass the FS. Likewise if you get the PS book and can do the questions in it you should pass the PS.
When I took the tests (1997-98), if I remember right, there were 165 questions. To be really prepared I’d think that a person would want a lot more sample questions than actual questions. I had the NCEES sample questions booklet (about 20), a sample exam book by George Cole (165 questions, just like the real one), and the Van Sickle’s 1001 Solved book. So well over a thousand sample questions. They helped a lot, and I’d have got more if I could have found any.
The version of 1001 Solved I used is now is out of print. Van Sickle now publishes it under a different name. And George Cole’s Sample FS exam is updated and available. If 50 works for you, more power to you. But I’d want to have my mitts on all I could get.
@norman-oklahoma It worked for me, I had all the other books and sample tests also, but these NCEES book helped the most.
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