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- Posted by: @flga-2-2
”I’m gonna make it come hell or high water”. (that’s a saying us old farts use occasionally)
If its any consolation, we did a recreation of ” To Hell and back” in 1981 complete with dirt clods for grenades, real old school Army Metal pots with liners and other canteens etc to compliment the era with wardrobe. (I think i touched a nerve in my other post…..) ????
I’d like to add, being a good surveyor has very little to do with running a successful business. Two distinctly different skill sets.
no truer words have been spoken in regards to licensed individuals who own their own businesses. my last employer was a very shrewd businessman who was both a dual licensed PE & PLS. his business never hurt for business or money in my opinion – though the “love notes” he sent us home with at Christmas time made us employees feel like we were the reason the business might “have to do layoffs if attitudes, self-discipline & motivation doesn’t improve.” But like stated above, he didn’t belong sealing a damn thing nowadays IMO (he might’ve been a great engineer/surveyor back in the day but too many years of sitting at a desk or in meetings will dull your skill). His arrogant speculations about how things ought to be done (in the field, in the office or elsewhere) or others’ business practices were conducted showed just how foolish he really was at times or just how out of touch he was with other people’s perspectives & problems. There’s no one right answer about to how to handle things despite what some might say
On the flip side of things, I have seen some of the very best surveyors & engineers fail miserably as business owners for various reasons – too peculiar about their work, not able to get along with clients/developers or unable to prioritize work or collect on invoices in a timely manner. I haven’t been self-employed long enough to even have a clue as to what a good business management entails though I have watched my father run his business for several decades. As for surveyors & engineers I an say that not charging enough or adequately valuing your time/efforts highly enough has been both metaphorically (& literally for one fellow) the death of a few guys & their businesses that I knew.
Dan Beardslee’s books have always been great – I downloaded one & bought the other but they’re difficult to find. Just google this website for the PDF download of one. the other (called Beyond the Traverse Point) I found used on ebay for a good deal. Granted there’s no one right answer to this but I liked what I read & both books are related to this field much more than any others available. I did find one called “a pocket guide to business for engineers and surveyors” but haven’t delved deeply enough into it to comment on it yet.
As for your financial situation, if you’re supporting a full family on your current earnings & have the kind of debt that the average American carries these days (a mortgage, car payment & other various loans for whatever plus household expenses) then I’d suggest you look to try it part time at self-employment on the weekends or at night until the business is booming or unless you have potentially 3-6 months worth of salary already saved up. I honestly feel like we might see another recession here soon with all the recent events.
One big thing individuals tend to overlook is the real world value of the benefit package they have with their current employer. It’s easy to look at billable rates that seem HUGE compared to the net appearing in the current paycheck and be tempted. The health insurance package alone may represent a very large amount of money that you will need to earn and then remove all sorts of other deductions so the net can pay for your own insurance for your family and you. Some employers carry life insurance policies as well. Thus, it is critical to look at all such expenses and how they will be paid and how you can structure your self-control to make sure those payments are made on time even when that doesn’t leave a comfortable amount for your other expenses. You now get the privilege of paying all of the self-employment tax, which is a higher rate than what is considered the normal employee/employer rate.
Go for it, full time, all the way. There will never be a better time to be in business for yourself. I did have substantial cash resources but buying that first Leica unit, a 530, was terrifying. I had the check for $43,000 in a FedEx letter and took it out repeatedly to look at and wonder if I should turn around and go back home. Seriously, I remember standing there, taking it out of the envelope and putting it back, scared silly. If I failed there was my cash gone and I was in deep trouble, and with an elderly ailing mother to support.
Six and seven years later we had two $300K years in a row, with me working long solo hours, no employees, and debt free. And, a very supportive wife who took care of the books.
I’ve got to say it gets a bit scary sometimes in the middle of winter when the phone isn’t ringing as much. But usually by the beginning of March, the phone starts ringing again and I untie my noose for another year. The absolute BEST part of it all is not having to rush to work every morning so I’m not late to my position as a gear in someone else’s machine. Surrounded by recent college grads that get insulted at even the slightest bit of constructive criticism. I can set my own schedule. If I absolutely MUST go fishing on Wednesday, then Roger P. Client will get his survey done on Thursday. Of course, if my business ever breaks out of it’s adolescence, I may have to reconsider my scheduling.
I am going to go against the grain, but don’t save up all of your money and then pay cash for your equipment. You are far better off to take out a loan and use your cash to pay your operating costs until you start bringing money in. Do you have an accountant? Do you have an attorney? Have you thought about what business structure you want to set yourself up under? I went all in, in 2017 and financed all of my equipment to the tune of $35000. This included a Topcon robot a Sokkia GCX3 GPS and a FC500 Data collector with magnet, plus tripod, rod, prism, etc. I use Carlson for my cad software. It took me about 6 months before the company was paying for itself. Since then everything has been going up.
@husker796 Love it. My moment came on the edge of the Grand Canyon when I realized I didn’t have to ask anyone’s permission to take a couple of days off.
@hollandbriscoe That’s a good way to go if you’re in a strong market for sure. In our market, I’m glad that we bought it all outright though. There’s been some pretty slow months and if I had financed anything, it would have been repoed. LOL
@husker796 That is why you keep your money that you put back for buying the equipment, to make sure you can pay your bills during the slow months.
@hollandbriscoe No I understand the concept for sure but I’m talkin really really slow months. Like pay the electric bill or eat months. 🙂
I did as you did, and things were going great. But then 2008 hit, and there were no jobs coming in, and I was damn glad I didn’t have any monthly payments for equipment.
Hopefully nothing like that ever happens again, so maybe it won’t matter how you pay for it. But in my area, even during good times, winter can be slow.
@husker796 There’s two ways to run a business; buy used equipment and don’t carry any debt or go debt to the eyeballs with leases and the like for the latest stuff. I went used, cash only, and glad I did. When it gets slow, it gets slow.
One thing I’ve learned through the years is that certain people always land on their feet no matter what comes along. Movers and shakers. Was chatting with a fellow yesterday who is an ARNP running a medical clinic for a local hospital. Nice money. His wife is also an ARNP working for the same hospital. More nice money. He also operates a business of his own on weekends He takes one of his brothers and a large truck and drives to the Kansas City area where they are contracted to clean up after sheetrock crews for several general contractors. His net is over $1000 per trip and sometimes closer to $2000. Not bad for one day a week.
FYI: ARNP = Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner
Know what your do and do what you know and buy the best tools you can afford
A couple new questions for those with the experience:
Which, or how many, forms do you use when setting up a new project? A contract appears to be a must-have. How about a work order? Do you have a separate notice to proceed, or is that triggered with the signing of the contract? Or some other way? If you have an expiration date on your contract or proposal, how long is it? I’m curious to see some opinions about the most efficient workflows when it comes to running this part of a business. Any other tips or tricks would be welcome as well.
As far as insurance– equipment insurance and professional liability insurance seem to be must-haves. Are there any others you would recommend?
@bstrand We always used a simple “Short Form Survey Contract” for your basic run of the mill survey or small topo.
We would state the project location (Address and Tax Parcel) a brief description of work to be done and the cost.
Notice to proceed was was done through the clients signing of the contract. Contract was typically good for 30-45 days but most of the time if we had a client that dragged their feet (couldn’t find a better price shopping around) we would honor it if the time frame was reasonable.
For larger projects we had a much more detailed write up on the scope with attachments of the survey area.
I think it always took me longer on the larger projects to state what wasn’t included in the proposal.
I’m also interested in seeing the responses for insurance must haves…
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