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And the value of data already collected is not reduced just because we don’t have to survey it all over again. Other data-driven industries don’t give a discount on data just because they already have it. We shouldn’t either.
Amen!
Great example in geophysics for exploration….they have huge datasets for purchase. Or you can go invest in the education that you’ll need to do the work, figure out the learning curve on producing valid data, and yeah…
Like plumbers, electricians, lawyers, doctors(not medicare/ medicaid) hair dressers, dentists fashion designers, professional athletes, etc etc etc, we shouldn’t have to be constrained by people’s opinions on what they feel it’s worth, it’s supply, demand and yeah….screw the price control clawing away for their own selfish perspective whiners…
You can find most firms rates in the meeting minutes of almost any municipality. It can take some digging, but there is a ton of info out there. It’s all publicly available in situations like that. Not a dangerous topic at all IMO.
in most of my working years we had Different Billing Rates for each market sector, client, agency.
history of how fast they pay is significant.
… the Pain In the Tush line item was includedYou can find most firms rates in the meeting minutes of almost any municipality. It can take some digging, but there is a ton of info out there. It’s all publicly available in situations like that. Not a dangerous topic at all IMO.
You won’t find mine, I quit chasing municipal years ago.
It’s not profitable.
There is only one public entity I do work with and my rates for them aren’t going to tell anyone much.
Even if it’s possible to get the audit info.
Another item. Some build all expenses into one or two hourly rates. This or that. Others have an hourly rate plus mileage plus cost for bars/caps, etc. plus a multiplier based on “overhead” to arrive at the final charges. Apples versus kumquats.
Awesome chart Radar.
Are you seeing that work fading away?
Or are they still staking everything in Washington; it’s a dying business here.
I’ve been working in WA 30 years and never once had a prevailing wage project. Too much red tape and headaches and un-wanted interactions. We work for the owner only on all our staking and seem to have a never ending backlog of projects to stake.
I’ve been working in WA 30 years and never once had a prevailing wage project. Too much red tape and headaches
Yes, some headaches. But also the opportunity to apply a 3x multiplier to those wage rates to get a billing rate. These big wage rates can equal big profits.
We still do a fair amount of prevailing wage staking work in WA. Yes, we have lots of administractive support for drawing up those contracts and cutting that red tape.
It can be pretty lucrative, but in my experience those projects are also most likely to result in bitter disputes over billing amounts, extras/restakes, and scope creep.
But that is the bread & butter for some on our BD team, so if they can get the work, we’ll make it happen.
Personally I don’t need or want that sort of work. I really hate that I have to document my every single move in anticipation of somebody going ballistic and refusing to pay what usually amounts to less than a tenth of a percent of total project costs.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil PostmanI think the challenge is how to decouple the value of a survey from the number of hours it will take to complete it. Hours per task is a concrete, easily quantified value, but they rarely reflect the actual value of the deliverables that we produce.
Over 20 years of reading similar sentiments on this board and predecessor boards and this is still something that takes constant attention to keep from falling into the same old rate X hours = price trap.
Other professions train their people how to run a business. Surveyors hold everything close to the vest. Hence, all the complaints about not charging properly to make a profit and a professional salary.
Hence, problem getting people into the profession.
The economics of surveying needs to be talked about more than anything else. But no one will do it.
Ideas wrapped up in your statement have been suggestions on review forms for CPD classes for many years. I don’t think they are only being written in by new licensees. There is an interest in being better at business out there, but I think many people get overwhelmed when they try to start self-learning in that arena. It’s not the same as reading a tech manual on a new piece of equipment.
There also are not many people who are willing to even begin to teach a professional development class on technical aspects of surveying. So getting into something like business, management, client relations, etc… is even more difficult to find speakers on.
Some of the key folks that used to share their insights are no longer around to do so.
Apparently my question was something of a faux pas. Please forgive me. I gave a client a fee estimate for a project and took it pretty much on the chin time-wise. I’m giving her an itemized bill, and was just looking for some idea as to going rates for various functions. Again, I most humbly apologize……………..
PS I found it interesting that some of you charge more by the hour than local attorneys I deal with.
PS I found it interesting that some of you charge more by the hour than local attorneys I deal with.
Value added.
@sergeant-schultz I don’t think your question was a fox paw, or a bloomer either. Seemed quite reasonable to me. We surveyors tend to be insular so how else are we going to know if we are giving away the farm, as some do.
I don’t consider your question out of line Sergeant Schultz. However, I don’t answer those questions for many reasons.
I can say through the grapevine that some local senior engineers charge 250-300/hr, that presumably some local surveyors charge 50/hr (might explain some of the crazy bids I’ve seen), I’m between those prices.
I’m happy to discuss my rates, mind you I am a solo operation.
I start at $1400 for any boundary under an acre. I add on if it is more if its really steep or a long drive, etc. A report of survey(just marking the corners) is $1100. I won’t do them for anything over an acre.
Boundaries over an acre start at $2.00 a linear foot. The price goes up based on terrain. If it’s flat mowed pasture or wide open I will sometimes go a little less than $2.00 a foot. I am extremely liberal in measuring the boundary in GIS when I am giving a quote and I typically round up to the nearest $100.
Topo is $2500 an acre on top of boundary costs.
I charge $250 to record a plat, $350 if I can’t e-file it.
Subdivisions are $550 per lot plus county/city fees in addition to the boundary. Recombinations are $400 plus fees.
A simple house stake starts at $550 per trip and it goes up the more corners the house has. IF I have not surveyed the lot previously I add in a report of survey if its a small lot.
Elevation Certificates are $1500.
In one of the counties I work in I have to sometimes do a steep slope report and I charge $1500 for those.
These are my prices and in no way am I saying that anyone should do anything I do.
What hourly rates do you folks use for:
1) 1 person field crew
2) LS
3) Computations & drafting (CAD)
and if you estimate & bill jobs lump-sum, do you end up making the above rates?
Thanks! SS
I think the question is…. do you charge different rates for different tasks?
I thought I needed to do that for years, since it was what my competitors did. But then I realized that myself and my people did a number of different project tasks every day and it was cumbersome to track it. So for project estimating purposes, I had just one hourly rate for every project task since I could not be sure who would be working on it in advance.
PLS hourly rate…
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Based on the time I’m allotted to complete projects I believe it.
I have billing rates for standard TS, GNSS,… work and seperate for laserscanning jobs.
Prep is hourly, staking is per half day and surveying jobs lump sum per day.
Deliverables are calculated by time spent
Don’t have a cow, Holy. It’s only dangerous if the discussion gets specific enough to trend toward specific prices for specific types of work, or toward an agreement to set specific $ amount rates.
The company I work for uses about a 2.8 multiplier and almost never employs lump sum. We don’t have a lot of competition in most of our market area and have historically had about 80% of estimates convert into contracts. Over the past 2 years, we would have stayed plenty busy and increased profits if using a 3.0 to 3.25 and probably still would have had a 60% or better estimate to project rate.
I’ve tried to get the owners to increase the multiplier and make greater use of lump sum contracts, but so far, they’ve declined to do either. Seems silly to me, but I don’t have an ownership interest, so I just chug along doing my job.
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