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Bearing rotation stake out error
350RocketMike replied 2 years, 2 months ago 16 Members · 37 Replies
- Posted by: @rick13
I was kinda looking for some real solutions.
The solutions are there. All the software can do is do what you tell it to.
If you are running in a state plane coordinate system, and you observe a point that is, say, 1300000N / 3500000E, and then move that point to an arbitrary or calculated coordinate, say, 5000N / 5000E, you are moving the real world position away from where it is actually located. You are telling the software that you want the state plane values for that point to be 5000N / 5000E, and it will behave accordingly.
This is why you are able to rotate, calculate, then rotate back again and everything is fine.
I hesitate to suggest this if you’re having trouble with translate/rotate, but there are local transformation options in Access that will maintain your grid coordinate system while computing local coordinates based upon a Line (same concept as translate/rotate), Helmert, or 7-parameter transformation.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman Ok. Let me soak this all up. It just eats me up that I was able to do this just weeks ago. Furthermore, I was just at a site that needed stakes freshened up.. No problems. It is just my new jobs that this is giving me problems.
It’s gotta be a setting.
Thanks for all y’alls help. ????
I recall explaining to another poster a while back that monkeying with your GNSS points in the controller, specifically in that instance of doing a translation of his base position to some calculated point without doing a proper calibration, was going to really gob things up. Didn’t want to hear it, but I guess some people are just not going to pick up what you’re laying down.
WillyTypically, powerful software needs a powerful operator. Likewise for simple software.
@lurker why would you make the plat match the field, instead of vice versa. I usually rotate/translate my field data to match the plat. It makes life much easier, especially for layout work, when you have to reference in different plan sheets and keeps you on the coordinate basis of the plat.
- Posted by: @chris-bouffard
@lurker why would you make the plat match the field, instead of vice versa. I usually rotate/translate my field data to match the plat. It makes life much easier.
If I’m running off of a geodetic basis of bearing and a defined projection, as in 99% of GNSS work, I’m going to report what I observed as well as record data. With associated metadata of course. It’s far more repeatable for someone following my work, as well as for me if/when I need to return when surveying the property right down the street that is in a totally different basis of bearings.
Now if I was running conventional-only and had no frame of reference for my project, I would probably twist my measurements to match record, but only because that’s the best available method without any standardized coordinate system available.
Posted by: @chris-bouffardespecially for layout work, when you have to reference in different plan sheets and keeps you on the coordinate basis of the plat.
For layout work, if they have a totally local coordinate system, I’m just going to run in that coordinate system. If I absolutely have to run GNSS, then it’s time for the client/designers to cough up local control coordinates for the project so we can apply a site calibration rather than a translate and rotate. With, of course, the caveat that site calibrations are an abomination if not absolutely necessary.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman - Posted by: @dave-karoly
In Trimble NEVER translate your survey, always translate your Calculated points. Translating your survey creates no end of problems.
What Dave said. Translate and rotate your computed/assumed coordinate points from your deed/map to your surveyed points in the field. If you want to rotate back to the deed for basis of bearing on your map, do that in the office in CAD.
@chris-bouffard Pretty much what Rover83 said. I don’t want the field data getting mangled by a mistake someone makes trying to adjust it. Leave the field data as is and make your projections fit. If I’m staking on a construction site, I’m going to be on the system used for that site. Any layout points I have will also be on the same system. I’m not sure what rick13 is trying to do, but it sounds as if he is trying to stake out points that are on a different system than what he is working on. If he is looking for property corners that makes sense. If he is staking for construction, imho, he should not have 2 different coordinate systems. His stake out points should be on the site system and he should be operating on the site system. I use “should” lightly. To each his own methods.
Translate Rotate and Scale. I have used it and see how when done correctly it makes life easy. But geezers. I usually have my plat and HP32s. And run the plat out on paper to make sure it closes. Along with that I have the bearings and internal angles between the bearing lines. So now if I go out and find a corner Or two I can calc the rest . How is it we have all become so addicted to the almighty COORDINATES king. I know some of you old timers ran around a property with a steel tape and found everything set up the traverse and located them. Ya didn??t have to have coordinates to find the corners and other supporting evidence. Now i am done ranting. But I do like doing some precalced plat and moving it to grid for some search points on a known datum. I had one the other day that was given to us and it was 16 feet off. But it still helps. I hope it can be figured out sometimes Trimble does some crazy stuff after updates. We are seeing a few grimlens from the latest Trimble Access update for the tsc7.
The reason I don??t translate the survey is Trimble deletes all your observations when you do that. You can undelete them in TBC but it??s a pain.
As others have said, if I want it on a local basis of bearings then I do that in the computer later.
I lost an entire day recently when TUM(Trimble update manager) did something in the background and the Trimble support team claimed I must have corrupted the file, or changed something. Great support. They didn’t even respond to the screen shot of the error message, which was created by the application and the software developers.
Unless Access is built on a covert AI platform and it’s slowly growing into Cyberdyne Systems for the symbiotic meld with Boston Dynamics to end all humanity.
THRAC OVER
I was talking with a crew chief about this the other day. He said he did an update to Trimble Access he could not remember when this happened but when he was staking out a point no translation rotation or scaleTion performed. Once he stored the point and began staking more points he realized something was wrong. Every time he stored a staked point it was rotating or changing his back-sight orientation . He called the local dealer and they emailed the file off. A update came out very quickly after that. It was a issue for sure. He was trying to remember just when this happened a year or few years ago. He is a seasoned chief so he has developed that sixth sense you get when something just doesn??t feel right. Or look right. I would be sending the files directly to my dealer and Trimble support. Maybe even create a new job and try and replicate the exact sequence of events and document and see if it does it again. I always love it when a coder or programer states my code is flawless. And it is until it doesn??t work anymore. When I worked for the govt. I spent hours going through new programs documenting every key stroke to find the glitches. Most people will follow some path and routine of clicking this button then that etc. I purposely tried many paths and many ways of trying to crash it. Because someone will eventually get sidetracked and miss a step and thats were the bugs show up. Glad I am not doing that anymore. Lots of coffee lol.
Can you still run Trimble access i know i did this a few times with survey controller. But rare times when I was dine with a job and showed up on a job I didn??t have info on and just set a point and a backsight point and began traverse and topo with no coordinates at all keyed in. Once the main crew showed up I would have them shoot a few of my control points from there main control i was not privy to and it all worked well. I did a blind boundary that way for the first day. Went out and I knew we had control close by on datum and just traverse looked at field evidence to find a few corners. Located row and other stuff. That evening i got all the info I needed and tied into the control from the adjacent property and set some more. If access still does that you could just leave no coords but have a csv file with boundary calcs find a couple few then link them later i know in TBC if u set them to control quality and do least squares you could establish your coordinates that way.
This thread makes me want to push up retirement.
@mightymoe ????
I’m not using Trimble yet but always export a backup CSV before rotating in case I f something up.
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