Man, I know what business I'm going into if land surveying ever falters: driveway construction. A client sent me a bid proposal that he'd gotten from a contractor for building 818 l.f. of gravel driveway pavement and asked me for my thoughts.
My thoughts were that the contractor had bid items totaling about $6500 for trimming/cutting trees that would take two men and a chainsaw a day to trim and cut, a day to run through a chipper or, in the case of the larger sections of branches or trunks, to haul off.
The driveway itself was just that: a driveway. So six inches of road base was probably plenty, 273 c.y. of which would run about $2700 delivered. For a driveway, I'm not so sure that the moisture content of the material as delivered wouldn't be just fine for compaction, particularly in the fall. I suppose that placing it in smaller lifts might make sense if this were other than a 10 mph driveway, but it isn't. So, I'm just not getting the point of proposing to park a water truck on site for three days as the 818 l.f. of base is laid and compacted.
I guess the main clue is that the bidder lists as his basic piece of equipment (if I'm reading his proposal correctly) a Bobcat at $75.00/hr. I'm sure he thinks that any survey ought to take 20 minutes, but $27,326 to build 818 l.f. of gravel driveway sure looks wild to me.
Oh, yes, that was with no culverts or other drainage structures.
I don't believe the bidder was a "LOWBALLER".
It seems fair to me for that length of road, along with the sub-base prep and base work that is required. A lot of people neglect the base, especially non professional do it yourself type people, and they lose the drive in a matter of months. The gravel sinks in to the soil or just washes off the road if it was designed to sheet drain over the road.
I would think this contractor knows his stuff and is not gouging. He will probably do a good job of compacting and likely even have some testing company do compaction test like those required on a municipal job.
I think you are stepping out of your area of knowledge with anything you might offer your client as to an opinion.
I think it looks a little wild too. Let's say it takes three days for the two guys to cut, chip and haul the trees and brush, that's over $2,000/day for laborers that cost the contractor how much/hr? My highly-skilled survey crew only brings in $1,200 for an 8-hour day. Is this a new driveway that will involve some grading before laying the gravel? If so, the total might seem fairly reasonable. Kent might be underestimating the time it will take the chainsaw, chipper, hauler guys too. Hard to tell from here. I always get sticker shock when I have stuff done at my house but that lets me know what people think when I give them an estimate for survey work.
Steve
I did not worry about the slight clearing or the removal of the refuse. If the base is done correctly which means compacted, which requires water, then over 800' of road is a pretty large job.
Multiple bids would be wise.
>A client sent me a bid proposal that he'd gotten from a contractor for building 818 l.f. of gravel driveway pavement and asked me for my thoughts.... but $27,326 to build 818 l.f. of gravel driveway sure looks wild to me.
what exactly is gravel driveway pavement?
sounds steep to me...not knowing what kind of clearing, grubbing & sub-base prep is needed though.
I think that is a reasonable estimate for the length involved.
Heck, in June I was with a bunch of family members in Yellowstone when I received a call from my daughter, whom was to check on the house every couple of days, informing me the supply line from the wall to the toilet tank in the master bedroom had ruptured.
The entire bottom floor of the house was flooded with about 0.3’ of water, which conveniently sought refuge in the garage and under the garage doors. And thankfully thence outside.
Damage and repairs were $68,000. Promptly paid by my insurance carrier.
Kent,
The remodeling “scam” may prove to be more profitable than what you indicated in your post. 😉
Have a great weekend!
> I don't believe the bidder was a "LOWBALLER".
No, he definitely wasn't a lowballer.
> I think it looks a little wild too. Let's say it takes three days for the two guys to cut, chip and haul the trees and brush, that's over $2,000/day for laborers that cost the contractor how much/hr? My highly-skilled survey crew only brings in $1,200 for an 8-hour day. Is this a new driveway that will involve some grading before laying the gravel?
Well, it'll take some minor grading to strip some topsoil and organic matter, but mainly in about 250 ft. of the driveway. The contractor's estimate tells the story in that the main piece of equipment he was proposing to employ, aside from a roller and a water truck, was a Bobcat. So clearly he wasn't planning on major earthwork.
> what exactly is gravel driveway pavement?
In Central Texas, it's compacted road base material consisting of crushed limestone mixed with fines and other material that compacts well and dries as hard as Swedish steel.
> I think that is a reasonable estimate for the length involved.
More than $33 per linear foot for a driveway 18 ft. x 6 in. consisting of compacted road base?
Kent, separate out the clearing & grubbing, the water truck, the bobcat, etc from the total bid cost. Get your aggregate driveway construction into meaningful quantities, such as square yards, cubic yards (compacted-in-place or loose measure), or tons. Road projects have these items (approaches) bid to include the actual placement of an aggregate approach (materials inclusive) - not just the material cost w/ hourly charges for whatever necess equipment (water truck, roller, dozer, etc). His equip costs should just be a mobilization charge, with use inclusive with bid cost to place an aggregate drive. Anyways, in so doing this, you should be able to determine where his costs seem to be on the high side, if they indeed are.
> Kent, separate out the clearing & grubbing, the water truck, the bobcat, etc from the total bid cost. Get your aggregate driveway construction into meaningful quantities, such as square yards, cubic yards (compacted-in-place or loose measure), or tons.
Well, the bidder has actually broken his price out nicely, both in labor, materials, and equipment.
This is a very small job, that isn't unlike hundreds of other driveways in the Texas Hill Country. It isn't a highway job with detailed specifications and QC tests.
The actual cost of the gravel pavement, complete in place, aside from the tree trimming mentioned above, would be:
$ 750 Remove topsoil
$ 2250 Spread base and 1-3/4 crushed rock
$ 6320 Materials
$ 2118 Roller (3 days)
-------------------------
$ 11438 Total
The extra roughly $16,000 is the tree trimming/removal and some other padded items. We're not talking specimen trees. These are mostly Mountain Cedars (Ashe junipers) of no great size. We probably did one-third of the tree removal just in cutting brush to run the centerline.
> We probably did one-third of the tree removal just in cutting brush to run the centerline.
Not to get to personal but what ball park figure did that run him?
I'd have wagered a fair sum of money its not a spec'd highway job. $7 / sq yd sounds reasonable. Your first post indicated $6500 for tree trimming / removal - what the hell are the "other padded items"?
> > We probably did one-third of the tree removal just in cutting brush to run the centerline.
>
> Not to get to personal but what ball park figure did that run him?
Oh, about three hundred bucks or so for the brush cutting.
> I'd have wagered a fair sum of money its not a spec'd highway job. $7 / sq yd sounds reasonable. Your first post indicated $6500 for tree trimming / removal - what the hell are the "other padded items"?
Oh, they include pushing some limestone boulders varying in size from about 1.5'x 1.5'x 2' to 2'x 2.5'x 3' back that were placed along one side of about 400 ft. of the route of the proposed driveway to keep vehicles from driving into a field beside it. The bidder has got $3000 on that, for example. Working room isn't restricted. It's just a matter of moving the rocks at most about 4 ft. horizontally.
Lat year my ex wife asked if I could measure her diveway in Cooke County. Their old driveway was just a trail more or less off of a county road onto the property, across two cattle gaurds and up to their house. It was probably closer to 1000' but I do not remember the exact length. They had gotten taken by a bait and switch driveway contractor. He came to the door with a story about having a crew down the road with left over hmac and would give them a sweet deal to keep from having to waste it. They bit, and two days later they had a nice fully paved driveway. His crews brought out a box blade a laydown machine and a roller. He charged them full price for everything except the first truck load. Long story short, it ended up costing them 9k for 4" of hotmix, graded, laid, rolled, and backfilled. Like Mike suggested,multiple bids would be in order.
