Blylevyn and Alomar have been elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame.
IMO deservedly so.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof11/news/story?id=5991808
Next year's ballot appears will be made up of these misses from this year:
Barry Larkin
Jack Morris
Lee Smith
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dave Parker
Don Mattingly
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Juan Gonzalez
Plus these newcomers, most likely, in 2012:
Bernie Williams
Vinny Castilla
Javy Lopez
Ruben Sierra
Jeff Nelson
Jeromy Burnitz
Tim Salmon
Carl Everett
Bill Mueller
Joe Randa
Brad Radke
Based on those names, if I had a ballot next year I would vote for:
Larkin, Bagwell, Raines, Martinez, Trammell and Walker. Palmeiro and McGuire have HOF numbers, but I would hold my vote for further reflection about the steroid era. None of the newbies on the ballot in 2012 would get my vote.
> Based on those names, if I had a ballot next year I would vote for:
> Larkin, Bagwell, Raines, Martinez, Trammell and Walker. Palmeiro and McGuire have HOF numbers, but I would hold my vote for further reflection about the steroid era. None of the newbies on the ballot in 2012 would get my vote.
Me being a Cardinals fan will always favor the Card players first. But in this case I am with you due to the steroid "connection". I like Mark (use to watch him beat my high schools butt and all other high schools butts in football & baseball) but don't like the steroid crap one bit! It's like cheating but having a loophole to say it isn't cheating. BS.
Go Ozzie Smith!!! Wait he's already in the HOF. 😀 :clap: :hi5:
A Cardinals fan in Oregon??????
Blyleven is long overdue. His W/L record isn't that good because he played on a bunch of terrible teams.
Why is Dave Parker being overlooked?
He had a great career of hitting and fielding, imo. with longevity.
He performed in his 20's and 30's.
Good bat and good fielder for a big man and one of the best rifles in right field in baseball history. Base runners would not dare to advance on him as an example unrecorded stats that go overlooked.
He wasn't a one trick pony like McGuire.
Definitely. He was elected on his 14th year on the ballot, after dipping as low as around 17% in his second year. A lot of writers jump started a campaign for him and have written a lot of words in support of him being elected.
A lot of people bring up his number of losses and lack of Cy Young awards and lack of 20 win seasons. Of the 10 players with the most losses in MLB all-time, only one is not in the Hall of Fame. Blylevyn is No. 10. If you pitch for a long time, you will lose a lot of games.
I think the problem some of the writers have with Parker is he had two or three peaks in his career rather than sustained greatness for 8 to 10 years consecutively. The cocaine scandall in the early 80's basically wiped out three years of his prime playing years.
He had 5 great years from 75 to 79 then one great year in 85 and a very good year in 86 and then two good to very good years in 89 and 90.
Baseball Reference.com has the top ten comparable players for everyone and on Parker's list there are three Hall of Famers (Tony Perez, Billy Williams and Andre Dawson), the rest (Luis Gonzalez, Garret Anderson, Al Oliver, Dwight Evans, Rusty Staub, Chili Davis and Harold Baines) were all good to very good players who had some great seasons, but don't cut the mustard.
If he had not hurt himself with the cocaine, I think he would probably be in the HOF.
"Based on those names, if I had a ballot next year I would vote for:
Larkin, Bagwell, Raines, Martinez, Trammell and Walker."
Can't see how Mattingly gets left off the list....his numbers are comparable to theirs.
>
> If he had not hurt himself with the cocaine, I think he would probably be in the HOF.
Well, he got caught, didn't he. Too many gold chain players back then, it was the beginning of bling.
There were many other substance abusers in the 70's and 80's and matter of fact in the 50's and 60's also.
Leo Durocher is rumored to have coke available to his players in the early 50's.
I think it was rumored that he said that if it worked fro race horses then why not ball players.
It was the 'real thing'...remember
😉
I don't know about whether him being caught or whatever hurt him, but the performance certainly suffered in those three years that should have been some more of his best years.
It's certainly subjective, the HOF vote. For me, Mattingly's greatness was too short of a time period.
His great years were 84, 85, 86 and 87 followed by two very good years in 88 and 89. He was hurt in 90 and then had above average years in 91 and 92 followed by a couple more very good years in 93 and 94 and his last was 95 in which was average.
His top 10 comparable players include only two HOFers, Kirby Pucket and Jim Bottomley, the rest are Wally Joyner, Cecil Cooper, Hal McRae, Will Clark, Jeff Conine, Magglio Ordonez, Keith Hernandez and Tony Oliva.
This writter, Dayne Perry, from FoxSports.com captured my thoughts about the steroid era and players and why more reflection is needed:
"In most cases, the writers have no idea who used what, and in all cases, the writers have no idea how PED use affected the numbers.
As well, there's the curious lack of outrage directed toward players of previous generations who used amphetamines, which speed up reaction times and reduce fatigue.
The fact is, PED users are already in the Hall of Fame and have been for years. Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Reggie Jackson (among many others) used amphetamines. Author Zev Chafets, in his book Cooperstown Confidential, reports that Mickey Mantle received a steroid and amphetamine injection down the stretch in '61. And Hall of Famer Pud Galvin injected himself with testosterone taken from monkey testicles way back in 1889.
Those who trot out the legal argument with regard to steroids should recall that the endless line of great players who drank alcohol during Prohibition starts with Babe Ruth.
On yet another level, every player who toiled before widespread integration benefited from an artificially compromised talent pool. And a number of those players (Hall of Famer Cap Anson, to cite but one example) were complicit in baseball's discriminatory structure.
And all of this is to say nothing of, for example, spitballers like Gaylord Perry ("soft cheaters," if you will) who are already enshrined.
In other words, those who declare that steroid users have no place in the Hall are either tacitly ignoring the misdeeds of past greats or making distinctions that are difficult to justify."
Has everyone forgot about Alomar spitting on the ump? That despicable POS should never be in the Hall of Fame. He also has HIV and knowingly had unprotected sex with others. How in the world could the baseball writers let this scum in the hall?
BOOOOO!
Roberto Alomar
For the record, Alomar and John Hirshbeck (the umpire) have publicly settled their differences.
It has also not been proven that Alomar is HIV positive, although two lawsuits have been filed alleging so.
I just hope in a few years they build a wing for Ichiro.
One of the greats who ever has played the game. To bad, that he is stuck in Seattle.
I still think that Dave Parker is viable candidate but it looks like his number will not be called.
Two bad years of being out of shape and injured plus his personal demons.
Parker Falls Short
That 1979 Pirates team now boasts two Hall of Famers, with Willie Stargell joining Bert Blyleven. But neither was the best player on the team - that honor belonged to Dave Parker, a true five tool talent who was pretty clearly the best player in the league from 1975 to 1979. During his five year peak, Baseball Reference figures that Parker was worth 30.1 wins to his teams. Yet he could muster only 15% of the votes in this, his final year on the ballot.
Parker was merely good for most of the rest of his career (six more 90 RBI seasons after he left Pittsburgh). He had 2,712 career hits, which would have had 3,000 if he had become an everyday player in 1973 rather than being blocked for two years by baseball's best lineup. The voters saw fit to elect Jim Rice - the exact same hitter as Parker only for a shorter career, at an easier position, without any of Parker's Gold Gloves. Unfortunately, Parker may never make the Hall. If he does it will be as an old man, inducted via seemingly random decisions of the Veterans Committee.
> A Cardinals fan in Oregon??????
Absolutely. I've been a Cardinals fan since I was 9 years old. Damn proud of it too!! 😀 :hi5:
> And Hall of Famer Pud Galvin injected himself with testosterone taken from monkey testicles way back in 1889.
This is just disgusting!!! 🙁 +o(
I wonder if any of them are 100% drug free these days?? Ya gotta wonder... 😐
Hirshbeck and Alomar have reconciled and the Ump even congratulated him and said Alomar should have been elected last year in his first year. The HIV story has not been proven.
Jim Rice got in because of a bunch of writers that said he was the "most feared" hitter in baseball - whatever that means. I did not think he deserved it, but as far as anyone knows, he was clean and Parker wasn't.
Ichiro should be in without question after he finishes. It will be a fairly short MLB career, but he didn't start here until age 28 or 29. If he makes it to 3000 hits that will be very remarkable.
