Surveyor Retainer/Research Fees

This is something we've struggled with some also. We started the idea of the retainer fee, but it's not in play prior to signing of a contract, so it doesnt apply to the research time.?ÿ I feel like I am chasing payment a lot more this year than years past. We also have an hourly contract we use for small things or any staking (not typical surveys), and I've seen an uptick in clients calling and trying to question their bill or get it lowered. It's getting old quick. We have one local town where every time I give a quote, they complain it's too high but it's a nightmare to work in, more than half of the lots never had corners set, densely wooded, nothing is flat, etc. The demographic is a lot of older folks who remember getting a survey in 1980 for a few hundred and think all we do is bring out a metal detector and "find their pins". I've gotten to the point where any calls from there I lead with a bare minimum price in said town is X, knowing that would you like me to research the property and give you a firm quote? Its greatly reduced my wasted time, as 90% of my calls from there they now say that's higher than I expected, no thanks. I'm still not set on a retainer prior to contract for the research costs, because it will chase a lot of business away since our competitors here don't do it. Our retainer is more a safety net for the folks who sign a contract, then a few days later call wanting to cancel. It's pretty rare, but happens every now and then. I dont charge it to developers or regular clients with good payment history with us.

The only time I charge a proposal fee is when the job appears to be complex enough that proposal preparation is likely to require more than a couple of hours and/or more than $100 in document purchases.?ÿ Those jobs are rare for me, I've only had 2 or 3 of them in 26 years in business.?ÿ For everything else, I just chalk up the propsal cost to business development.?ÿ

One of these days I might do the work necessary to figure out my job-to-proposal ratio, but I'm guessing that it's on the order?ÿ of 60%.

Thanks for the feedback. I think we are also experiencing the same thing. A person thinks that because they paid a certain price for a survey in 1989 then the price now should be close to that. Also I think that some people are not aware of how much work goes in to boundary surveying. We have alot of heirs property in the area I work in and it can be very challenging. I am just trying to figure out a way to find out if a client is serious. I'm thinking that if I charge them a $400 research fee on surveys of 5 acres and up then this will do the job. If they decide to not go forward I will give them their plats and walk away being paid for my time.

I generally do some very basic type of research, look at the deed and if there is a previous survey that happens to be recorded. I look at the adjoiners and do the same take a quick glance at the deed and if there is a recorded survey. All of that takes no more than 30 minutes, just a quick glance mind you, just to see if it is a good description or a crap one. I take a look at the P.O.B. tie and if it is a good tie or a crap tie. Then I look at the terrain and if it open field or swamp or on the side of a mountain.

I will call them up and give them a price range that I expect the job to cost. They either have a mild coronary and end the call or have already called others and gotten a similar answer and continue talking trying to understand how it can cost as much as it does. If they continue talking I have a chance, if they have a coronary not so much.

On side note: There is no reason for you to be spending hours developing a estimate unless it is a phenomenally large job. Last month I worked for about 8 hours t develop a price for 2 large jobs but the price for one was a $135k and the other was $165k. Unless they are large jobs you are spending far far to much time trying to justify the lowest price. Give a price range and move on. It sounds like your obsessing far too much. You should not be spending hours on small jobs.

I got in the habit of telling folks 120 an hour to pull deeds, maps and other records, followed by an onsite visit at the same rate. If you decide you dont want a survey we setlle up and I leave you with a copy of the research. I made a good bit on jobs I didnt get...

For most surveys not in a subdivision, it takes me about 3 hours of research to give the Client a proposal knowing what we are both to expect.  I research Client's property and adjoiner's to be able to do this.  I  prepare a scope of services and fee.  Not sure I want the client who shops my price using my carefully prepared scope of service for a cheaper fee. May be ok for some and that is ok.  

I thought about charging for the research but that presents a problem as it takes an hour to bill and forward the research.  Not worth it and is just business development expense.

When we get a call to do a survey and the first thing they ask is 'how much', we send them to the last entity who surveyed the property or to the courthouse.

?ÿSpeaking of researching. ?ÿToday we can research a great deal while still talking to the potential client. ?ÿA few months back we were backlogged with work. ?ÿA fellow called to discuss what he needed done quickly. ?ÿThis would require a section breakdown if one had not already been done. ?ÿMy quick research showed a local firm with a good reputation had been to every section corner we would need less than two months prior to this call. ?ÿI told the fellow to call them and provided the phone number.

I am not so sure I agree with the idea that it takes 3 hours to do some basic research and be able to provide a price to someone. That is a lot of time being spent unpaid doing something that may not generate income.

You don't have to work up a proper written estimate for every call that you get. Maybe it is a consequence of where you live or maybe your business model but I get lots of calls asking for the potential costs and the overwhelming number are just looking for a price. Well after nearly 20 years now I will give most callers a price range to expect and if they want me to work up a proper estimate I can do that. But I do not spend the time to work up a proper estimate if they are not serious or just wasting my time.

Large proposals are different than the small property surveys that people call about. I assume that you are talking about a typical residential survey to build a fence. I have also struggled with doing these proposals and the sticker shock. So, I remembered what I learned in a class long ago: prospects need to be "qualified" by the provider of services at each stage of the relationship.

Any sales prospect from a person looking in a car lot to someone buying a Boeing jet goes through a qualification process. They often do not know it is happening, but the sales guy is essentially answering the question, "Is this prospect worth my investment in time, or should I move on to something more profitable?"

I have found that while I need a bit of research to know the proposed amount, I am able to quickly come up with a ball park. (I do initial research on-line while they are on the phone.) As soon as I know this, I give that information to the caller. If the amount is completely outside their imagination then we can stop there. If it is below, at, or higher than what they thought (but not outlandish), this gives me the opportunity to explain what goes into a survey and then offer to "sharpen my pencil", do a little more research and then get them a proposal.?ÿ

I figure I accomplish two things with this:

1. The people put off by my initial rough order of magnitude will likely call another surveyor. My amount sets a basis for judging the next proposal. Hopefully, I can raise that basis in their minds to a realistic level.?ÿ

2. I can qualify that the prospects I am working on are the most likely to actually accept my proposal.

Angie's List, Home Adviser, and tons of home improvement sites all serve to set a very low bar for what people expect to pay. For example, Home Adviser sent us a lot of calls for a while, and then called up and offered to continue to do so for a price. We asked them to stop. Their projected price for a survey in our area was $500-$1500, and no one ever thinks theirs is at the high end. (Double those numbers and you are about right for a suburban survey around here.) Some were quite indignant, and I didn't understand until I went on-line and found out how much Home Adviser was suggesting that my services were worth.

It has been years since I've had justify my fee. I have no time for that kind of client.?ÿ

I answer the phone take down some basic information, and find out what the ultimate goal is (you would be surprised how that changes the conversation) and pledge to call them back or send an email. However, usually it is not my fee but how quickly I can provide the service.?ÿ If they cannot live with my five week backlog than you should move on and I will try to make a recommendation based on recorded surveys. I like the research part but I don't have to leave the office as everything I usually need is a few keystrokes away or in a file or two downstairs.?ÿ I average an hour or so per fee proposal and count that as overhead.?ÿ

Exactly! I cannot understand the idea that someone is going to spend 1,2, 3 or more hours researching and preparing a written proposal unless you have some reasonable belief that it is going to yield positive results. It is illogical to tie up so much time doing that when you could be doing other stuff that earns money.

Unless it is a large complex job here are my steps.

1.) Take the call and get basic info and tell them I need some time to do some basic research and I will call them back.

2.) I do some basic research and plug in some numbers to my spreadsheet estimator.

3.) A few hours later I call back and make some small talk and ease into the money conversation and I will tell them what the expected price range will be.

4.) If they are still interested I offer to work up a written proposal & I inform them that we collect 50% upfront, we take credit cards, and the balance is due at completion.

I worked for a shop that not only did complete research before bidding a job but also had their chief of parties visit the site before putting forward the final proposal. It was great from my perspective, no surprises in the field, an opportunity for actual guidance and management for the field crew. They usually sent the old dog back out with a map for a field check before final delivery to the client.

I know that such a model is not possible for everyone but as a green party chief it sure did help to have old Harry out there before and after.?ÿ

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I've never charged a research retainer fee prior to proffering a proposal.?ÿ Demanding money prior to offering an estimate is silly.?ÿ Estimates are nothing, proposals are everything.

That includes multimillion dollar engineering projects where engineering researches preliminary design costs, I research probable surveying costs for research/acquisition/construction staking/final monumentation activities, etc.?ÿ It could take 200+ man hours to come up with a reasonable number for a proposal.?ÿ Lose during the selection process, meh, 20 grand for a shot at millions is overhead.?ÿ A diligent review of what the client actually needs so you can show up for interviews armed with a clear presentation of?ÿ how you'll help them succeed may lead to winning the contract.?ÿ Cool PowerPoint presentations may trump dry written reports especially when dealing with government agencies (dunces).

OTOH small lot surveys for whatever reason when working in a 1-5 man survey only outfit; that initial call is critical.?ÿ Work hard to find out exactly what the client wants, get the particulars (location, timeline, etc.), judge his/her insanity level, and based on what the client's saying offer your opinion as what their best options are:?ÿ do nothing, call another surveyor, let me look into it and I'll get back to you, or nicely say goodbye.?ÿ If you're getting a reasonable feeling based on scope, initial client impression, your knowledge of their locale, spend 20 minutes to an hour or so looking into the records and call them back with a reasonable proposal.?ÿ If they're aghast at your projected fee, move on and consider your research time?ÿ overhead.

In reality, there's two small shop scenarios.?ÿ ?ÿThose that are well respected locally, charge appropriately and have weeks of backlog so they don't need to do the desperate cheap risky surveys on a moments notice, or those who send their field crew(s) home on Wednesday night because there's no work, the last 10 lowball surveys lost money so there's no way to make payroll.?ÿ A moderate research effort without retainer fees (which will turn off most clients), is worthy even though overhead losses cut into the bottom line, it'll?ÿ cull the loser clients and ultimately make your shop?ÿ more profitable.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I agree that asking for money before giving an estimate will turn off alot of people who may end up being valued clients down the road. Perhaps the way to do it is to give a quick price range either over the phone or through email and gauge the clients reaction. If they can agree to that range then go forward with research and proposal. Thanks again and I appreciate all the comments.

I'll spend a short time, maybe 10mins on the phone and at the computer with a new client checking GEarth and Appraisal District Maps and other resources at hand to see what they are talking about.

After it appears that they are just talking, I have to ask if they want me to survey their property or not.

It is then that they must decide if they want to pay me for helping them or not.

I do not charge someone for my initial talk with them and will request that they send me an email or letter asking me what they want me to do for them and I give them a budget to work with for my fees.

Then and only after receiving that request do I begin any actual research of the property before setting foot on the ground to make the survey.

0.02

"Perhaps the way to do it is to give a quick price range either over the phone or through email and gauge the clients reaction."

You are spot on. I work for a small survey office that does a lot of residential surveys. I will often give clients a ballpark estimate based on parcel size, area, and the current deed, then ask if they would like me to do a more detailed estimate/proposal. This filters out the sticker shock people quickly and saves time.

My former employer and I conference called with his attorney to discuss a potential project. The attorney asked for a 'ballpark range' on the survey fees. I replied that I could give him that, but one number would get me in trouble and the other would scare him off. My boss thanked me for the lesson...

Can you give me a ballpark figure?

Well...Nationals Park opened in 2008 and it cost just under $700 million