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New Hampshire License Free-For-All?

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(@allen-wrench)
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I haven't seen this posted yet, but I think it's relevant to our profession.?ÿ As someone who's dying to move to New Hampshire (but not sure where to find a job), this should make me more marketable.?ÿ I'm curious to hear what everyone's take is on this.

It just became easier for out-of-state professionals to work here ƒ?? New Hampshire Bulletin

?ÿ

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 6:03 am
(@lurker)
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I think it is wonderful. Even with the phrase "substantially similar" there are very few instances where competence in one state is not competent in another. The idea that a professional substantially loses their competence by crossing state lines is a farce.

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 6:46 am
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

There might be differences between states that should require passing the state-specific exam. Going from one New England state to another would be the most similar and least likely to have such differences, I'd guess, but you would certainly need to review their laws.

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 6:59 am
(@ric-moore)
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I think it is wonderful. Even with the phrase "substantially similar" there are very few instances where competence in one state is not competent in another. The idea that a professional substantially loses their competence by crossing state lines is a farce.

What different states have you substantially performed boundary surveys in?

 

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 8:31 am
(@peter-lothian)
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There might be differences between states that should require passing the state-specific exam. Going from one New England state to another would be the most similar and least likely to have such differences, I'd guess, but you would certainly need to review their laws.

I think you're right that they will still require passing the NH State Specific portion of the exam. Even amongst the New England states, there are substantial differences in subdivision law, highway law, even deed and plan recording.

 

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 8:37 am
(@chris-bouffard)
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PA did the same but you still have to pass the State Specific exam (that included drainage design).

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 8:56 am
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

Something similar for teachers was approved during the most recent session of the State Legislature in Kansas.  Far fewer new graduates are available than teachers leaving the profession.  Various silly things have been done to come up with "teachers" who have no more training and experience than graduating high school, themselves.  This is for substitute teachers, but, the shortage has been so great that substitutes have had to fill in fulltime.  One area that stongly promoted the new legislation was around Fort Riley where many military spouses are teachers.  Previously, they were not eligible as they did not have a license to teach in Kansas.

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 9:06 am
(@jon-payne)
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Similar language is being looked at by legislators in Kentucky.  Much of this push for a universal acceptance of licensure comes from research out of the Institute for Justice.  According to their website, 20 states have enacted universal recognition with 12 adding the caveat of significantly similar qualifications.

One of their talking points is how in the 1950s, only 5% of the labor force was required to be licensed but now about 20% are licensed.  They use this as a way to sell the idea of over regulation.  I'm not privy to all their research, so maybe that claim actually does mean something.  But, a very minor amount of looking (article) and one sees that the percent of the labor pool in technical and professional jobs has grown from ±9% (1950s) to ±25% (2015); while laborers, agriculture, and machine operators has dropped from ±12% to less than ±2%.  So why would it be surprising that there are significantly more people working in licensed fields with a license.

Another of their talking points is that licensure does nothing to improve quality.  Their conclusion on this was based, in part, on some research into Yelp reviews.  Strangely, to me, they quantified 'quality' on just the star ratings awarded.  Without pulling the language used in the reviews, it does not seem that you can measure 'quality' as many reviews (both positive and negative) have less to do with 'quality' than with rapport.  Also, even the star rating is just a perception of quality from lay people.  I couldn't even recall all the times I have listened to someone complaining about a fellow licensee and how they didn't know what they were doing - just to find out that it was simply that the person complaining was completely misunderstanding what was even done!

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 10:03 am
(@thebionicman)
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@jon-payne We just went through massive deregulation. It's a flippin free-for-all with a crippled discipline system now. Every regulation is considered a 'barrier to business'. Unfortunately it's sweeping the country...

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 10:44 am
(@dmyhill)
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licensure does nothing to improve quality

So what? That means the oversight isn't done right. It doesn't argue against licensure.

It seems like we add a new "profession" that needs to licensed every few years, so that may be an issue as well. 

Some licenses should travel: Doctor, barber, tattoo artist, barber, cosmologist, etc.

Some need local knowledge: lawyer, septic designer, cadastral surveyor.

Again, I think we need breakdowns of surveyor: construction, cadastral, PLSS, etc. Then certain would be a universal license and others would need local knowledge.

 

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 11:52 am
(@lurker)
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@ric-moore I'm not sure I understand the purpose of your question. Would it matter if the answer was 1 state or 12 states or 0 states?

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 1:04 pm
(@jon-payne)
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Every regulation is considered a 'barrier to business'.

That is part of the statement made on the IJ report as well.  There were further interesting items that could be taken from the Fed of St. Louis paper which seem contrary to some more specific claims about the "barriers".  But those are hot button issues so it is probably best to forgo them.

 

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 2:31 pm
(@jon-payne)
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So what? That means the oversight isn't done right. It doesn't argue against licensure.

Actually, the source material used in the IJ studies does argue that because licensing does not improve quality (based on some sketchy research IMO) forgoing licensure may be a better choice in favor of "...alternative methods of protecting the public health and safety.".

The doctors you mentioned as should be portable are cited as the prime example of why universal recognition should be enacted.

The lawyers you mentioned as not being portable have been specifically excluded (and they are the only ones excluded) from the proposed language that is being discussed in Kentucky.

 
Posted : 29/06/2023 2:57 pm
(@aliquot)
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@jon-payne quality measured by Yelp star reviews??? In addition to the issues you pointed out with this, I would assume their are very very few Yelp reviews for proffesional lamd surveying services done by the unlicensed.

 
Posted : 06/07/2023 3:55 pm
(@andy-j)
Posts: 3121
 

Sitting for my Illinois license next week, and had to jump through some hoop$$  (everybody wants to get their beak wet)  but it's only the state specific exam.  Same for Indiana last year and Wisconsin a few months ago.  

 

Yelp reviews??  most of the time people go there ticked off, that would be a horrible metric.

 

Andy 

 
Posted : 07/07/2023 5:05 am
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