We did an ALTA survey for an out of state client. Couple of months later get an email stating that we must destroy everything including field notes, Autocad drawing and title report and supporting documents, etc. Only thing they said we could leave were the pins in the ground. Anybody ever had this request? I assume the deal fell through.
Did you have a good hearty laugh?
I have never been asked to destroy the materials. Usually the client will realize the benefit of preserving the work in case the project comes back to life in the future.
Does your contract specify who owns the materials? They may belong to you. I don't know if there is a recording requirement in your state for the monuments set, but I can't imagine destroying my field notes in any situation. This leaves the monuments with no pedigree.
On the other hand, this may be an ideal project from your perspective if you have been paid. Not much risk was taken and you were able to be paid for the work.
we're required to keep all the information
many ma surveyors will instruct their heirs to burn it all...
your client must be either owner of a shredding company or a frequent customer. ever see those big shred it all vehicles in the city? they cannot be up to any good.
> Couple of months later get an email stating that we must destroy everything including field notes, Autocad drawing and title report and supporting documents, etc.
As always, should you or any of your crew be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, amadeus73.
Being from Tennessee, I assume that is where you did your survey. TN specifically states that the data is property of the surveyor unless your contract states otherwise. Even in that case, I'm not sure you should destroy it, because it also says all the data should be carefully preserved.
I know I would have a very hard time complying with that request.
Chris B
Tell them there's an additional FEE for destruction of all pertinent information; make it large sum. If they don't pay, don't destroy. If they pay.....your call.
> We did an ALTA survey for an out of state client. Couple of months later get an email stating that we must destroy everything including field notes, Autocad drawing and title report and supporting documents, etc. Only thing they said we could leave were the pins in the ground. Anybody ever had this request? I assume the deal fell through.
And if in a year or two you get sued over your work on the project, what then?
Destroy everything? I think not.
Put everything in a secure file that is under lock and key and only you have access to? If they are willing to pay the required money, maybe.
Larry P
Were There Caps On The Pins?
Then you most definitely want to save the data.
As suggested I would lock up the file, but would keep in my open files the survey with all certification names, owners etc removed. That is in case some other surveyor calls with questions. As to the field books, most offices will have many jobs in each field book, so that becomes a problem.
Suppose you survey the adjacent parcel, you would want this survey very handy.
Paul in PA
Were There Caps On The Pins?
To destroy your survey and the supporting data would probably be against state regulations. In Alabama a plat must be prepared and kept in your files for every survey.
Were There Caps On The Pins?
I'll try to address everyone in this post. Oh and thanks all ffor the replies, comments and opinions.
A hearty laugh, no, but a confused one yes!
Nothing in our contract stated that anyone other than us owned the survey, materials, etc.
Jim, as long as they don't drop down on me out of the ceiling like ninjas, I am on my guard. We pack heat in Tennessee!!
Chris B: That has always been my understanding as well, but if you know of a law or ordinance or whatever and where I can locate it, I would love to have a copy of that or a link to it, as this issue has come up a number of times.
Larry P, I totally agree. As usual the surveyor is always left out to dry. BTW, this is your TN surveyor brother Phipps. Not sure if you knew that or not.
Tennessee doesn't require us to draw a plat of property we survey. I wish they did frankly.
Also, yes my pins are capped as always per law. Excepting old ones we found with no caps, of course.
At any rate, I thought this was a rather odd request, and one that came out of nowhere. Just mainly wanted to see if this was common and had just never happened to me before. As John Lennon said, strange days indeed.
Were There Caps On The Pins?
> Larry P, I totally agree. As usual the surveyor is always left out to dry. BTW, this is your TN surveyor brother Phipps. Not sure if you knew that or not.
>
That you Nick? Cool. Hope things are well in your world.
Larry (that other Phipps guy) 😉
Were There Caps On The Pins?
Yep it's Nick.
Things are going ok but will be getting much better soon as I turned in my two week notice yesterday and am off to bigger and better things.
Were There Caps On The Pins?
Sounds like a law suit may be brewing and they want you to get rid of any documentation you have before the suit is filed so that it can't be obtained by the other side in discovery.
It would be the height of professional irresponsibility to intentionally destroy the records of a survey you've recently performed. You have points in the ground. i don't know about TN, but in CA, once they're in, you can't remove them unless you are merely correcting your own mistake on a recently performed survey.
If your client also wanted you to pull the irons, if no one is already building something in reliance on them, as long as your client is paying the bill and if state law allows for it, I suppose you could go ahead and pull them.
If there is a lawsuit about to be filed, the other side finds that you did perform a survey and that you subsequently destroyed all evidence of having done so, it may put you in a bad spot. It could be viewed in a similar light as the shredding parties at Enron just before they were officially under investigation - intentional destruction of material evidence.
As for me, if I'm hired to perform a survey, ALTA or other, I've been hired to inform the client and designated agents of the boundary location and site conditions. That information is given in the form of a map, sometimes a supplemental report of some kind, and with monuments in the ground if requested. The research, field notes, calculations and analysis that I use to produce the maps, reports, and points in the ground are my records. The only exception to that is any proprietary information provided by the client and/or the client's agents that is requested to be kept confidential.
If I get called to answer questions for my professional opinions under oath, I will not be caught flat-footed, without the information I used to form those opinions, and I certainly won't let myself be put in a position of having to admit under oath that I intentionally destroyed all of the information (evidence) I considered in reaching my opinions.
Watch out for mafia lightning though. "Strangest thing I ever saw. A freak lightning storm came out of nowhere and I'll be doggoned if a bolt didn't hit Amadeus' office and burn it to the ground with all his equipment and records. Nothing but ash left - a total loss."
