I know that I will get flamed up one way and down the other...but I am actually trying to have a conversation...I don't actually think this way yet, but my mind wandered down a path...
And it is all this guy's fault:
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=58103#p58162
See, plumbers will most likely NEVER be de-certified/unregulated. Why? They have strong unions that set the price they make, and stringently enforces their rights. Try to do plumbing without a license. I hear about people getting fined for that all the time. I know you can be a non-union plumber, but they still benefit, don't they?
If we tended to be part of a union (and yes, that would make us a trade) then we too could legally collude on pricing, and might have a more effective voice with legislative bodies.
It is groups in our position that often form guilds and unions to protect our rights, our incomes, and our territory.
All this talk about ASCM and who should represent surveyors...maybe what is needed is a strong state by state union, or if you prefer professional status, maybe a guild of some sort?
I am sure there are all sorts of holes in my theory, so I guess it is time to get the flame on!:cake:
There will always be a jack stick who will lowball. Collude all you want, someone will beat your fixed price. There will always be hungry folks will to do a job for less. The only step deregulation would take our industry is down.
Think about it some more. You will see the light. Do you want every party chief with a pickup and a total station out there creating boundary problems? Do you want engineering students to replace the PLS at large engineering firms while he climbs the career ladder? Do you want GIS monkeys creating ortho photography that cities and states rely on for decision making? Do you want our billable rates to drop even more?
I'm trying to figure your logic Snoop? Is government regulation preventing all of these things you are talking about happening today? In Texas we have unlicensed people with equipment and a truck. The only people hiring these guys are other surveyors. My clients know better. The engineering firms have always held EITs in a higher esteem than their surveyors, that's why I don't work for an engineering firm. We have licensed surveyors who will still do title surveys for $350. I choose not to provide these services.
I am not saying states ridding themselves of professional provider regulating boards will benefit all surveyors or not, but I don't think it's the end of the world either. I'm willing to give it a go. My clients will still need their projects surveyed, platted and staked. That's not going to change. I'm not certain half my clients even know I hold a license. In the end, the good surveyors will thrive and the bad ones will complain about all of the other surveyors not doing a good job. There is nothing new under the sun.
I guess, if the definition of good means holding more political sway over the legislature.
If I had my druthers I would still opt for professional status regulated by a licensing board.
If there's no longer professional status, then a surveyor's opinion in a boundary conflict matter will also apparently be meaningless in court.
All downhill from there.
Mr. Chain
I think surveying should be regulated and licensed but I don't think de-regulating us would make our opinions worthless in court. We could still be qualified as experts based on experience. Keith Williams has testified as an expert in court without being state-licensed, and rightly so. There are a couple of chain-of-title specialists in my area that seem to show up in every case I'm involved in. They just happen to know how to research title and have the experience to be credible experts.
Mr. Chain
Well, so will the opinion of the GISer with several years of experience. To a court full of laymen, they won't know or care about the difference.
Mr. Chain
All I'm saying is that they can bring a GISer into court now as an expert and the judge or jury can believe him or her or not depending on how credible the GISer seems. If a witness testifies a certain way and the other side can't refute it, it becomes a "fact".
The answer is very simple.
NO!
The ethics of the general population is so low that the problems created would be monumental.
The only thing I can think about here is that if my state were to 'de'certify me would I have legal recourse to sue for the time and expense I went through to become certified to begin with. Probably not. There are licensed plumbers and electricians, but there are plenty of unlicensed plumbers and electricians who do a lot of work as well. Screw it. Like I've said before, I grow a lot of food these days.
Aside from Land Surveyors and land owners...who do you think has the most to lose in a dispute?
Think about it.
