Anyone know more about this? "Hundreds of California homes, buildings used plans drafted by 2 phony engineers, say authorities" Could end up involving surveyors that provided planning maps or staked buildings.
Wow.
Holy crap!
Ric can you comment?
There are so many homes that were built in Texas that never crossed an engineer's desk.
Many were drafted by someone that had taken a drafting class in high school.
I located a home for a client last year that was designed by his brother in law who designed living quarters on Holiday Cruise Ships and was neither engineer or architect. He kinda knew how to use Autocad REVIT. The dimensions of the exterior for the house did not close.
My grandfather built a house in 1917 and it is still standing, he was a farmer.........
There ya go. The old timers just built 'em hellferstout. No economical analysis of cost/benefit ratio on alternative designs. Get some lumber. Get some nails. Pull out the hammer, square and hand saw. Get to work.
No such thing as chipboard, waferboard, sheet rock, nail guns, glass fiber insulation, electrical and plumbing supplies, truckloads of premixed concrete and power tools.
Interesting article - makes me think. We are involved in 40-50 different housing projects which include us using the engineering plans associated therewith. Never have I questioned the authenticity of the plans themselves. As long as the plans have been approved by the local government I use them without question. Think IÛªll do a license check on all new incoming engineering plans! :bored:
Given the Earthquake design standards in California, the investigation should be interesting.
A run of the mill residence in CA doesn't necessarily require any input from an architect or engineer. There are many legitimate home plan preparers whose plans are approved daily who are neither. They just know the building codes. One could get away without those engineering services (when it might normally be required) by over-specifying (say) a structural element.
???
What about the building inspectors and permit reviewers? A plan goes to the building department with a permit application. It is reviewed and approved. Wouldn't you think that someone would have caught this a little earlier?
I can't imagine anyone else involved in the 'natural progression' of plan review to construction being held liable for a fake set of engineering plans...unless they were indeed mixed up with the bunch. Like was stated above; we work off plans approved for construction by the local permit process. I've never questioned the legitimacy of an engineer's signature. That being said, I have been known to question their abilities...but not their license.
If I read it correctly, the perpetrators were even faking the name of the firm and the engineers. How the hell could anyone tell??
we (Surveyors) are licensed, the reason we are is to Protect the Public.
same goes all the way up and down the food chain, regulated to Protect the Public.
enough hand holding! The culpable ones are the Consumers ...
Peter Ehlert, post: 357382, member: 60 wrote: ....The culpable ones are the Consumers ...
What does that mean? aren't the consumers the consumers more like the victims here?
I loved this quote from the article:
On the architectural side, the value of architectural licensure is ÛÏimmeasurable,Û said Matt Tinder, spokesperson forÛ¬The American Institute of Architects, in Washington, DC.
ÛÏWithout it, the entire built environment could serve as a public safety hazard,Û Tinder said.
That guy doesn't have any ego about what he does.
paden cash, post: 357381, member: 20 wrote: I can't imagine anyone else involved in the 'natural progression' of plan review to construction being held liable for a fake set of engineering plans...unless they were indeed mixed up with the bunch. Like was stated above; we work off plans approved for construction by the local permit process. I've never questioned the legitimacy of an engineer's signature. That being said, I have been known to question their abilities...but not their license.
If I read it correctly, the perpetrators were even faking the name of the firm and the engineers. How the hell could anyone tell??
I believe the main problem is ". . . One challenge for law enforcement is that many local governments only keep design and engineering plans on file for six months. . . ." and now there are apartments and commercial buildings out there that may put the public at risk. If another professional (Professional Surveyor that staked the building) has a copy of plans bearing the faked company and engineer's name it may be evidence. Anyone holding plans from Palos Verdes Engineering Company should contact the real company to verify the authenticity. Failing to do so could be construed as concealing evidence.
Vernon Williams, post: 357400, member: 10955 wrote: I loved this quote from the article:
On the architectural side, the value of architectural licensure is ÛÏimmeasurable,Û said Matt Tinder, spokesperson forÛ¬The American Institute of Architects, in Washington, DC.
ÛÏWithout it, the entire built environment could serve as a public safety hazard,Û Tinder said.
That guy doesn't have any ego about what he does.
He's obviously confusing good surveying, engineering, and construction with architecture. He doesn't need to tell us how important good architecture is:
@Vernon
"That guy doesn't have any ego about what he does."
I've often wondered why some of these self proclaimed genius architects can't make their dimensions add up correctly. :-S
[USER=9139]@BajaOR[/USER]
There had to have been some HUGE bribes involved in the planning and zoning committee decision for that "work of art".
FL/GA PLS., post: 357464, member: 379 wrote: @Vernon
"That guy doesn't have any ego about what he does."
I've often wondered why some of these self proclaimed genius architects can't make their dimensions add up correctly. :-S
Because they have people for that.
Vernon Williams, post: 357466, member: 10955 wrote: Because they have people for that.
Plus those people will work for much less than the architects charge...it's a win/win for them
James Fleming, post: 357469, member: 136 wrote: Plus those people will work for much less than the architects charge...it's a win/win for them
hence my statement above: The culpable ones are the Consumers ...
after a few generations of massive hand holding, many don't have a clue about doing more than "shop cheap"
