Maybe I'm wrong, but its starting to sound like you want a surveyor to justify and defend your opinion of where your boundaries are. That isn't what we do.
A few years back I had a client try to dictate how I would perform the survey & what my results would be - I immediately quit working for her.
She insisted that she was entitled to every inch that was included in her "deed", all other evidence to the contrary. It went to trial, she lost. She then appealed to the state supreme court and lost. She lost the house in a foreclosure.
Thank David, I get your point and have been told this before. And as annoying as the phrase is that it??s the principle of it, it really is just that. Especially when we are dealing with matters of law and a profession that is based on principles. I understand that this pie slice is going to cost a big stack of cash and that hasn??t stopped us from sticking to our guns and riding this out now. We knew what we were getting into. Just shocked that someone can actually dispute the record and deeds, when there wasn??t a monument in the ground to dispute. We seriously considered ??rolling over? at the start of this. I think their continued lies made our decision to stick to our principles.
.....proration in a simultaneous conveyance is the absolute last resort in this situation and bottom of the barrel, meaning he has nothing else he could go off of.
A word about this .... if the differences between record and measured dimensions differ by an amount attributable to just normal small imperfection in measurement (ie/ a few hundreths or tenths of a foot across a lot, perhaps), then proration is appropriate. It amounts to calibrating your measuring device to be in tune with the original surveyors tape.?ÿ If there has clearly been a blunder (ie/the differences between measured and record is measured in feet), then proration is, as stated, a last resort.?ÿ?ÿ
Sitting here at a keyboard, I can't say who is right and who is wrong.?ÿ You might be 100% in the right.?ÿ There is always another side to the story and they may feel just as righteous as you. ?ÿIt sounds like you need to find the right surveyor to come in, be it the answer you want or not.
A short story.?ÿ A guy in a nearby town had a property and a neighbor had their property surveyed.?ÿ The survey used the wrong monument and this guy could not get into his out building because of it.?ÿ I knew what was wrong but the guy couldn't afford to get the survey done.?ÿ He had open heart surgery in the past, no insurance and was basically making payments on his heart.?ÿ I talked my boss into letting me do this survey cheap, $500 cheap, for probably $2000 worth of work.?ÿ
We did our survey, it showed he was correct, the neighbor hired another surveyor that agreed with me and the matter went away.?ÿ The guy we worked for had been in court and was being pressured to give up and accept the wrong survey.?ÿ If we hadn't helped out he would have been screwed.?ÿ The problem is the neighbor had to hire two surveyors, the first of which was wrong, hire a lawyer and wasted money in the process.
In your case, I don't think the neighbors survey is so obviously wrong, you have had a bunch of people out there trying to survey it and they won't finish it.?ÿ If the other survey really is wrong, I understand you wanting to make it correct.?ÿ You just need to find the right guy.
Yes, I would love to pay for quality work. I would also love for the original monuments to hold, but what does Mick Jagger day? You can??t always get what you want. Which doesn??t seem like anyone is willing to even try that as a starting point. And yes, we are over simplifying this, going off recorded work conducted over the decades that established and/or described these boundaries. I haven??t sued anyone. I??m the defendant. I made every attempt to talk it out neighborly. The wife got upset when I started planting close to the boundary so I said I would hire a surveyor so we can define the boundary and move forward. When their cousin came in and supplanted the guy we hired, red flags went off as to what is going on out here. I can??t imagine a surveyor conducting malpractice in a conflict of interest, but when he told me I was a ??junior lot and they are a senior lot, and you get what you get?, again raised red flags after running off the first man we hired. Something is wrong with this situation. I??ve noticed it??s easy to blame the one sharing this story as a few have on here and professionally. I??m sharing the story because I??m seeking the truth, I??m seeking the facts. Anything other than that is a waste of time. All we want is what we purchased, nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, that is what Kris Kline was telling me.
Yes, need to find the right guy! The problem I found is how to approach the surveyor for work. Tell him about the mess or don??t tell him anything? Ask him to draw up a boundary agreement with the monuments in the ground? Most that have been contacted hear a bit of what??s going on and do not want to get involved. A large number of them say they can do the job then back out because a conflict of interest with the neighbors or their surveyor. Would love to know a good approach to hire for this situation without coming acros as crazy bitch who is telling a surveyor how to do his job. We would love some consensus among professionals about how to approach this retracement.
Sounds like you found someone, but you didn't like his schedule or cost.?ÿ Maybe he is the right guy.
Most of us don't know who is right or wrong.
The Cousin Surveyor makes an appearance of a conflict of interest.
I had a relative ask me to survey their lot.?ÿ I looked into it as a favor.?ÿ It was an ambiguous situation like you have.?ÿ A subdivision by Deeds rather than one map and the Deed descriptions conflicted with one another.?ÿ After that I politely declined to get involved because decisions would have to be made about the evidence and if the neighbor didn't like my determination naturally they would view me as having a conflict.?ÿ If it was a simple situation then I would've done it.
You have two options.?ÿ One: Fight the neighbor which will mean you need an Expert which is very expensive.?ÿ Going to Court without an Expert in a boundary case is foolishness, you may as well not waste your money. There is no guarantee you will win in Court, the Court may even split the baby.
Or Two: if you can accept the neighbor's survey (as much as you hate it) then settle out of court, have the lawyer make it legally binding only on that one boundary (not the other three), and build a fence to enforce the agreement.?ÿ There is something to be said for peace on your homestead.?ÿ You can go broke fighting legal cases, win or lose.
Option three would be make an offer of compromise and see what happens.
Yea maybe you??re right.
So here is the adjoining deed, it states the common boundary between four parcels, two of which are mine. All other monuments measure up to this within a foot of closure except for the new stake by surveyor #2. What doesn??t line up is this description with the old plat it??s 5-6?? short of where it should be in distance. Would you hold this monument if this was the evidence you found?
Yea, I like those options. Problem is we built a fence based off of what surveyor number 1 and 2 corroborated was his mistake, (3ft wrong) We came back 3.5?? set back from the first boundary set. Problem is the 2nd surveyor set his stake 9?? away from the first. What is super interesting though is if you plot out number 2 map, it comes to where our fence is, not six feet west where his stake is. His own map and stake are in conflict of each other. That could be the easiest for the court. The fence becomes the new boundary, which is either what number 2 reports or 3?? back from the first stake. Weird situation.
Dave has a good answer.
I personally have gotten in real deep on this kind of thing. Come up with answers.
You said yourself that it was a pity that the agreement was not reduced to writing.
Indicating that if it had been, you would be happy. No fight.
What if you went to the neighbor, with a complete offer of peace, gave up some land, had a surveyor document it, with some good monuments, and quitclaimed the new deeds to each other. You might loose a bit of land. (You can't take it with you) you might regain your neighbor/friend. You might live a little longer. You might live happier. And, be a bit richer to boot.?ÿ
The principle here is: "The way up, is down". To quote an old proverb, "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall".
Besides, it deprives an attorney of money, gives a good low stress job to a surveyor, and perhaps reconciles you and "that bad neighbor". 🙂
N
According to Epictetus, it isn't your neighbor moving the boundary which is causing your suffering, it is your reaction to it.
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/324
Haha, that??s pretty good. Yea, don??t worry about it when getting sued is not that helpful. Don??t worry about it when they threaten you and you 3 year old child is not that helpful. But I get your point with the message.
Yea, I see your point. So the moral of the story is if someone tries to harm you, let them. If someone is deceptive, try to be their friend. If someone wants to take from you, let them. Kind of strange but ok.
Back to retracement law or principles. The problem seems to lie with having two parcels from two old plats. I would like to find a surveyor that can combine the parcels, do a new description, plat, and the neighbors can have the 3 feet on the other side of the fence.
