Time for Board to enforce California Law 8762?
The punitive enforcement model which the U.S. is addicted to doesn??t work well in anything. It??s impossible to hand out enough speeding tickets when the road is designed for high speed.
@elzeballa My local CLSA Chapter has a Professional Practices Committee and last year they got a surveyor to file a few RS's where he should of originally. The PPC is a great way to nudge the offending surveyor to do the right thing, while not elevating it to a Board complaint, local policing if you will. Our Chapter lets people/surveyors anonymously file complaints with them, so there are no hard feelings between colleagues. Get active in your local CLSA Chapter and if they don't have a PPC get one started.
Did I read this thread right? Local municipalities are charging $5,000 to record a survey? Are the recording fees established by legislation or subject to the municipality to set the fee?
Hold their feet to the fire. That's the only way to affect change.
I don't disagree, but it means that private practitioners become the enforcement mechanism (the holders-of-feet-to-fire). We have to get along with the staffers whose behavior we're trying to change, and that can get tricky if you get a rep as a pain in the rear. I'm not optimistic that this can be a successful model.
I think I'm probably persona non grata with my County Recorder after siccing the County Counsel on him. I sure don't want to burn my bridges with the local DPW, with which I have professional services agreement.
I agree Jim. It's a dance.
It takes a lot of time to gather Facts.
Time is Money.
If we want Enforcement we need to spend that time and money... the Board will not.
We Surveyors gather facts, express out personal Opinions, and then present them for use by others.
The primary focus of the Board of Registration is not Enforcement.
If they have all of the necessary data presented to them Perhaps they will proceeded.
WE need to gather that data for them, and push them to take the next step.
Remember, we are Licensed to protect the Public.
We need to consider (and describe) the actual harm when we gather that case data.
@kevin-hines I should have been more clear, sorry about that. I'm sort of trying to encompass a rough estimate of a Record of Survey, in total. For context, Sacramento County charges a $121 recording fee, $500 initial deposit for review fees, and they bill at a T & M rate for review time that goes over the deposit. Depending on the complexity of the survey, the range could be $500-$1,500 worst case. And that doesn't include our time in the field or preparing the map, AND also addressing comments through the review phase.
So, to a private lay person, someone who thinks their property lines are in a computer somewhere, the range of prices depending on what we find in the field is so much. The way the law is written or the way it is enforced gives way a.) more surveyors willing to skirt the law, or b.) ethical surveyors to lose money or potential jobs.
@dave-karoly so then what would be your answer? I don't think that is an apt comparison, the speeding ticket example. I think an apt comparison would be something along the lines of MLB PED policy - in my opinion, it is pretty hefty for a player. They can lose a whole season - millions of dollars, if they do it. If you make the penalties meaningful, then it does deter people. For example - deeded lots automatically require a ROS, that's an easy one. If the board gets a complaint and sees an exhibit or PDF with a boundary line on it and there is no ROS - if they fined you a year's salary, let's say, every surveyor in town would take notice and there would be less willing to take the risk of being caught.
It sounds like California has legislated the local municipalities to perform a Board function to review every survey for compliance, and charging the surveyor/client for the police action. In the mandatory recording states I am familiar with, the surveyor takes the plat and/or surveyor's report to the Chancery Clerk's office, sometimes called the recorder's office, pays their $30 - $50 recording fee, and it is recorded before the following day's close of business.
In my humble opinion, if you eliminate the review of survey plats by the unlicensed bureaucrats [in other words, rely on the licensed professional to comply with the minimum standards, laws & local ordnances], charge only your recording fees, and compliance by most survey practitioners should increase dramatically. This may be a cause your state society can champion and at least make a recommendation to change the legislation.
Has the California Board investigated any surveyor for not complying with this Law?
Many times. And it has levied substantial sanctions (fines and/or limitation on or loss of license) many times. Unfortunately, there are more violators than there are Board funds to enforce.
Well yes and no. Yes to the first part but this has nothing to due with sufficient funds to enforce. The simple truth is that not enough complaints are submitted to the Board in the first place.
The punitive enforcement model which the U.S. is addicted to doesn??t work well in anything. It??s impossible to hand out enough speeding tickets when the road is designed for high speed.
https://www.wired.com/2010/12/swedish-speed-camera-pays-drivers-to-slow-down/
In my humble opinion, if you eliminate the review of survey plats by the unlicensed bureaucrats, charge only your recording fees, and compliance by most survey practitioners should increase dramatically.
Heck, even the licensed ones can be a roadblock, perhaps even more so, when they don't stay in their lane.
If my short plat is in compliance with local ordinances and meets statutory recording standards, don't tell me how to write my surveyor's narrative or that I need to change a note so that "it sounds better". If you want to do that, then you're going to stamp and sign it yourself...
But of course as Jim pointed out we have to work with these folks, and our in-house engineers and planners (not to mention the client) depend on us filing on time to get rolling on construction, so we can only push back so much.
