Deed Term
Quote from BStrand on August 7, 2024, 10:39 amI've got a project where a landowner hired a surveyor about 20 years ago to cut a parcel out of a larger tract he owned; landowner retained ownership of both. A deed was written for each new parcel and they were recorded without going through the county's parcel splitting process. Fast forward to today and someone wants to buy the smaller parcel. The county got wind of this "illegal" split and is making the buyer do another survey of the parcels and write new descriptions/deeds. This is total a waste of the buyer's money (imo) because the current deeds are perfectly locatable, but that's not my actual question here. I'm curious if there's any sort of official term for an "illegal" deed?
I've got a project where a landowner hired a surveyor about 20 years ago to cut a parcel out of a larger tract he owned; landowner retained ownership of both. A deed was written for each new parcel and they were recorded without going through the county's parcel splitting process. Fast forward to today and someone wants to buy the smaller parcel. The county got wind of this "illegal" split and is making the buyer do another survey of the parcels and write new descriptions/deeds. This is total a waste of the buyer's money (imo) because the current deeds are perfectly locatable, but that's not my actual question here. I'm curious if there's any sort of official term for an "illegal" deed?
Quote from chris-bouffard on August 7, 2024, 10:59 amIt sounds to me like it's not the deed that is "illegal", but it sounds like the subdivision is. If the subdivision was never approved and filed is does not exist in the eyes of the county.
It sounds to me like it's not the deed that is "illegal", but it sounds like the subdivision is. If the subdivision was never approved and filed is does not exist in the eyes of the county.
Quote from BStrand on August 7, 2024, 11:11 amWell yeah it's an illegal split in so far as the county didn't get their chance to rubber stamp it, but the split itself doesn't actually run afoul of any of their requirements as far as acreage, access, etc. I don't see why they can't look at the 20 year old survey and these deeds and say yep, we're seeing this 20 years later but it all looks good. My coworkers figure the county is requiring the new survey and deeds as punishment and if so then that seems quite petty, especially seeing as how the recorder and development services people don't communicate about these things even though they're in the same building.
Anyway, like I was saying I'm really just curious if there is an official term for a deed from an illegal split.
Well yeah it's an illegal split in so far as the county didn't get their chance to rubber stamp it, but the split itself doesn't actually run afoul of any of their requirements as far as acreage, access, etc. I don't see why they can't look at the 20 year old survey and these deeds and say yep, we're seeing this 20 years later but it all looks good. My coworkers figure the county is requiring the new survey and deeds as punishment and if so then that seems quite petty, especially seeing as how the recorder and development services people don't communicate about these things even though they're in the same building.
Anyway, like I was saying I'm really just curious if there is an official term for a deed from an illegal split.
Quote from chris-bouffard on August 7, 2024, 12:05 pmI have never heard any term used for a deed for an illegal split but, getting back to the 20 year old survey, no public agency is going to accept a 20 year old plat. Most won't accept one that is over a year old without it being updated.
I have never heard any term used for a deed for an illegal split but, getting back to the 20 year old survey, no public agency is going to accept a 20 year old plat. Most won't accept one that is over a year old without it being updated.
Quote from Deleted user on August 7, 2024, 12:21 pmOfficial term around here: "any day of the week that ends in "y"'.
Official term around here: "any day of the week that ends in "y"'.
Quote from peter-lothian on August 7, 2024, 12:59 pmIt's going to depend on your state's laws. In Mass. a 20 year old plan (or "plat") can be recorded if it meets the registry drafting standards and is not a Definitive Subdivision plan. Those have a time limit for recording. Retracement survey plans and Approval Not Required land divisions have no time limits.
A couple years ago I had a situation where a former client sold off some parcels without going through the Planning Board so that they were non-conforming to zoning. He took advantage of a loophole in the conveyancing statute. Two of the buyers became our clients for developing the lots. At some point the Planning Board caught on to the fact that one of them had inadequate frontage, and tried to tell the other that they had to convey some frontage to the owner of the short lot. This after all the site development was almost complete. I told my client that the Planning Board had no power to force them to sell their land, especially since all the hearings were over and their approvals in place. The "problem" soon faded away.
It's going to depend on your state's laws. In Mass. a 20 year old plan (or "plat") can be recorded if it meets the registry drafting standards and is not a Definitive Subdivision plan. Those have a time limit for recording. Retracement survey plans and Approval Not Required land divisions have no time limits.
A couple years ago I had a situation where a former client sold off some parcels without going through the Planning Board so that they were non-conforming to zoning. He took advantage of a loophole in the conveyancing statute. Two of the buyers became our clients for developing the lots. At some point the Planning Board caught on to the fact that one of them had inadequate frontage, and tried to tell the other that they had to convey some frontage to the owner of the short lot. This after all the site development was almost complete. I told my client that the Planning Board had no power to force them to sell their land, especially since all the hearings were over and their approvals in place. The "problem" soon faded away.
Quote from MightyMoe on August 7, 2024, 1:22 pm"Non-conforming tract" is what they call those here. Possibly it can be granted to someone, but if you try to get a building permit or do anything with the parcel then you have roadblocks. It's better to get it conforming.
Mileage will vary depending on your location.
"Non-conforming tract" is what they call those here. Possibly it can be granted to someone, but if you try to get a building permit or do anything with the parcel then you have roadblocks. It's better to get it conforming.
Mileage will vary depending on your location.
Quote from chris-bouffard on August 7, 2024, 2:48 pmA non conforming lot/tract is one that requires a variance because it does not comply with the zoning ordinance(s). If the subdivision has not been approved and filed, the nonconforming lot/tract doesn't even officially exist.
A non conforming lot/tract is one that requires a variance because it does not comply with the zoning ordinance(s). If the subdivision has not been approved and filed, the nonconforming lot/tract doesn't even officially exist.