Who aspires to be something they don't even know exists?
It doesn't help that surveyors seem to take pride in blowing people off.
I stumbled into surveying in a state where the DOT had their own survey staff, and that's where I got my first experience.?ÿ When I moved to another state a couple years later I went down to the local DOT office to inquire about survey positions.?ÿ They told me they contract out all of their survey work.
So I left and cold called a few local survey companies (no answer) and left a voicemail inquiring about positions.?ÿ None of them called me back, and I remember that giving me the impression at the time that private sector surveying must be some sort of good 'ol boys club where I had to know someone to get a job.
Once I got through school I didn't have a problem finding interested companies and now that I've worked around licensed guys for a while I've got to see how they almost take pride in blowing people off.?ÿ I'm sure some of the calls or emails are a legitimate waste of time, but I find the pride some guys take in being difficult to reach ironic to say the least.
Anyway, the point is I don't think licenses of the world are doing themselves any favors when it comes to exposure.
Here's a song about come ups.....
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@bstrand?ÿ
I literally had to ambush guys along the roads to get interviewed for my first position, so I can absolutely relate. It's like unless you're related, or family friend, you won't even be considered.?ÿ Hopefully that has been changing, but my last few jobs have been only because of whom I knew, and was known by.
That's probably the biggest thing holding this field back, self imposed isolation and insulation.
Once I got through school I didn't have a problem finding interested companies and now that I've worked around licensed guys for a while I've got to see how they almost take pride in blowing people off.?ÿ I'm sure some of the calls or emails are a legitimate waste of time, but I find the pride some guys take in being difficult to reach ironic to say the least.
Anyway, the point is I don't think licenses of the world are doing themselves any favors when it comes to exposure.
Amen to that. I avoid telling folks I'm licensed unless I really need to. Nothing changed for me when I got licensed, except I was now able to stamp the exact same work I had been doing before. It's an achievement, not the endgame.
When I went back to school I really enjoyed doing outreach with the geomatics students association. Lord knows the large firm (and my boss) I was working full-time for wasn't doing any outreach.
Six months now I've been looking for a field assistant, someone with a genuine interest in surveying, hungry to learn and work hard and show up every day. At times it feels like I'm looking for a unicorn. Only resumes I've gotten have been from felons, equipment operators and a girl currently working at an ice cream shop. None have even the slightest experience or even know what surveying is and I just don't have time to show someone how to set up a tripod a dozen times.?ÿ
I guess the take-home message is that young people are smarter than we were. 😀
I believe that the initial hurdle that surveying has in the career choice world of the younger generation is that it is not only a 'hard work' physically demanding profession, but it's also complex mental work at the same time; the dual combination takes a special type of individual to want to spend their working days using their mind and body to its fullest extent. There's plenty of candidates out job searching for the path of least resistance with their labor, and I only hope those that want to go against that grain knock on my door with a resume. Hope you find what you are looking for soon...
Money is the key to end all your woes.?ÿ Your ups, your downs, your highs and your lows....It's like that, and that's the way it is.?ÿ
Run DMC said it best.
If we want good staff we have to pay them their worth compared to other options they have.?ÿ Otherwise, we will work our way out of a profession.?ÿ The good news is that it is happening in at least some areas right now.?ÿ If we do hit a bad recession or downturn then we will lose any progress from this brief spell.
My 2 cents: we cannot attract new people into that profession that:
- constantly complains about the lack or work ethic of younger people
- fails to present a professional appearance at every opportunity in the public's eye
- competes to charge lower rates than the other 'guy' to get work
- requires formal education for licensure, when QUALITY educational programs are few and far between
- does a lousy job of reminding people of what we do and the importance of our work
- allows our work to be done by others that should be done by licensed surveyors
- in many states, does not allow the opportunity for that individual who has worked hard, learned our profession and study hard to obtain a license unless they paid some institute of higher education for a piece of paper to hang on their wall
- fails to police its own ranks adequately by calling out those that do substandard work or operate their businesses in an unprofessional manner
What we need to do focus on showing everyone we are professionals, deserve to be respected and paid well for the valuable service we provide.?ÿ Quit complaining about what isn't right and start fixing some of those things.
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Anyway, just my thoughts and yes I know in my brief post, I likely did at least 1 or 2 of the items I listed above.
a group of people that seem to be so... grouchy, short-tempered, snarky, and generally miserable while also being arrogant
That's true life poetry, man
I can??t help but think that with the push for efficiency over last decade, with robotic totalstations and GNSS, the profession has effectively eaten all but the fittest and most committed young up and comers.
I'm not sure this is the case. I think if it were true we wouldn't be looking for people so often because we would have a small but ultra-skilled workforce able to handle current demand, and very highly paid.
But I think we've painted ourselves into a corner by being unwilling to pay based upon talents and skill set, and being way more focused on licensure and seniority.
There's currently a big push at my employer to train more PMs and do more "strategic hires". Even as they acknowledge what we really need are highly skilled and technically competent project surveyors and SITs. You know, the ones that solve the problems and get the work done.
I've heard the argument that techs should never make more than a license, and it's frankly not convincing.?ÿUnless that individual is bringing in a lot more profit simply by being licensed - which can happen, but is very hard to quantify - give the guy with more skill and talent higher pay.
There are a ton of skill sets and sub-disciplines within geomatics, but we seem to be hell-bent on taking someone who has barely scratched the surface of a few of them, pushing licensure on them, and then shoving them behind a desk to "manage" projects. While also telling them that because they are licensed they automatically know better than folks who are not.
It also seems that we gain licensees mainly because folks need/want a good pay bump, not necessarily because there's nothing left for them to do except get licensed.
I'd rather keep upping the pay as folks gain more skills and bring value to the firm, whether or not they get licensed. If that means they surpass a licensee in pay, that's fine by me.
It also forces the licensees to not rest on their laurels after getting that stamp. I know way too many people that turned their brains off after passing that exam.
The first time I was on a crew, I was 15 years old working a summer job. I was the fifth man on the crew. The first few weeks I tied a lot of flagging, sharpened machetes, cut line, carried buckets, filled water coolers, and stocked and cleaned out trucks. I also got the opportunity to watch and learn. That was an advantage for me to be able to slowly learn what I could do to help out.
I learned from every person on that crew. I haven't seen any of them in probably 40 years, but I remember all their names, save the tail chain man.?ÿ
I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have to hop in cold on day one and having to produce, because you can't have slack on a two person crew.?ÿ
you can't have slack on a two person crew.?ÿ
It's even worse on a one-person crew.?ÿ I have no opportunity to sit back and watch the other guy work, because there isn't one.
(On the other hand, I don't have to argue with him about when and where we're going to have lunch.)
A second set of eyes, ears, etc. can be incredibly helpful.?ÿ I tend to get so lost in my own vision sometimes that I cannot see the obvious (and much easier) solution.?ÿ Then I hear, "How about this?"?ÿ Witnessing the process in action assists the learner.?ÿ Talking about it is not nearly so educational.
@rover83?ÿ
I'd work for and with you anytime. Perspective like this is where I've been, and long to be.?ÿ Almost no one can manifest this belief, and even fewer are comfortable even mentioning it.
The people you discuss that are under your mentoring have no idea just how lucky they are to be there.
And you've been mentored by similar as evidence of the perspective you have been able to develop and foster.
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Kudos.
I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have to hop in cold on day one and having to produce, because you can't have slack on a two person crew.?ÿ
Did that for three weeks at a level I had no business being pushed into, by people that could only condemn and criticize me on my lack of production all the while not even getting me set up with the permissions to access the system and even knowing where to even find things.
I learned even in that environment, and took the lessons forward.
