So around here you can cut pieces off a property, but the owner of the parent parcel apparently isn't required to update their deed to reflect those changes until they go to sell the property-- which might be decades later. Is this normal? I thought I've heard some states require the parent deed be updated immediately, but I can't recall the specifics of what I heard or read.
Anyway, this seems like such a sloppy bad way of doing things that I'm kinda surprised this is how it's done. I'm curious to hear how it's handled in other states, opinions, etc.
Happens every day.
That is the normal way things are done. It makes the deed research "challenging" sometimes. Even in the Title Registration system in Mass., the only required updates to a parent deed or Certificate of Title are a reference on the Encumbrance Sheet showing that a new subdivision has been created, and references to the parcels sold out. The Certificate of Title is cancelled when the last parcel is conveyed.
No requirement here either.
Part of the issue is how to do it.
There is no grantor-grantee when it's still in the same ownership, John Smith can create the Smith Trust and then do it, but John Smith to John Smith is an awkward transfer and lawyers simply didn't do it.
When John Smith sells; there's a percentage (way too high) where the existing deed gets granted without the exceptions or possibly some but not all of them listed in the new grant.
So it's messy.
Still, I really don't want another level of government regulation to "correct" it, it may be messy but people still have freedoms to be messy, that's better in the end.
No requirement to update the parent parcel in NC. It seems like it should be a PLS's responsibility to explain why it's a good idea to do so to their client and guide them through it. A single email is all it takes. Get the attorney's contact info, then send them a Less and Accepting description that they can attach to the parent lot description in a quit claim deed from themselves to themselves. There's no better time to do this than when the out-parcel gets conveyed.
Probably a state-specific thing, but it seems odd that many PLSs offer no guidance to their clients in regards to these complicated matters. Providing clients with a list of instructions for their attorney of choice is much better than sending them off blind. I've had numerous situations where a recombination plat (reconfiguration of lots, boundary line adjustment etc.) was recorded but the recombination was never legally created because no one recorded a deed that referenced the plat. We can't expect clients to know about the Statute of Frauds. I'll say this until I'm blue, most folks are afraid to ask questions because they feel it makes them appear dumb. Create a canned, "Next Steps", email or word document and send it to your boundary clients.
Not required here either.
Although I do work with a few Attorneys who will file a new description for the parent tract.
They usually use the format:
- Original description
- Excepting parcel transferred out
- More particularly described as new description
I'm involved with a case right now where the landowner sold off a portion of their property over 30 years ago. Fast forward to the present, the owners have passed away and the executor has no knowledge of the previous sale. The title company doesn't find the sale out. The property is sold to new owners using the original description. It all hits the fan. I'm sure everyone involved wishes the original attorney filed an updated description at the time of the subdivision.
Definitely not a requirement around here unless you're doing a boundary line adjustment.
Around here that is the Title company completes the research and compiles the existing legals into the current legal. Most land transactions don't even have a survey or surveyor involved.
In most jurisdictions of Oregon you can no longer create new lots without going through a Land Use Review process, which means filing a subdivision plat of one form or another. So there will be that in the record. Nevertheless, the owner of the parent parcel is not obliged to record new deeds on any portion he might retain until he sells. Even then, all too often, the vending deed simply regurgitates the legal description used in the last sale. And then there are those properties which have been held since before the Subdivision Control Act came in to effect. There are a few of those, still.
So...... the surveyor has to be very careful to check all the records, including the records of all of the adjoiners. Our Tax Assessor mapping is quite good and will usually alert us to inconsistencies of this type.
Same. And some of the jurisdictions go so far as to have the owner's signed statement on the plat contain language similar to "The owner shall record a confirmatory deed and this recorded plat shall be referenced in said deed."
No requirement in NC. Usually not an issue, but can create some headaches in research. Also raises the question, which perhaps is unique to this jurisdiction, if a map is recorded but never referenced by a deed, does that map have any authority? There are lots of ways this can play out; confusion and ambiguity is usually the end result.
A recorded plan with no deed referring to it is - evidence of a survey having been done. Same as an iron rod you find in the ground, not referenced by a deed or plan. It has as much authority as you judge it to be worthy of, in light of the other evidence you find, measure and analyze.
There is no grantor-grantee when it’s still in the same ownership ..... but John Smith to John Smith is an awkward transfer and lawyers simply didn’t do it.
Huh? It's totally legitimate that someone could create a new parcel and retain ownership of it, how can this just be ignored?
It seems like it should be a PLS’s responsibility to explain why it’s a good idea to do so to their client and guide them through it.
I don't know about responsibility, but I would agree it's not a bad thing to do voluntarily.
I’ve had numerous situations where a recombination plat (reconfiguration of lots, boundary line adjustment etc.) was recorded but the recombination was never legally created because no one recorded a deed that referenced the plat.
Yeah, and this is why I try to make the client record all of their things before I record any of my things.
I’m involved with a case right now where the landowner sold off a portion of their property over 30 years ago. Fast forward to the present, the owners have passed away and the executor has no knowledge of the previous sale. The title company doesn’t find the sale out. The property is sold to new owners using the original description. It all hits the fan. I’m sure everyone involved wishes the original attorney filed an updated description at the time of the subdivision.
This is the kind of nonsense I want to avoid getting caught up in, or more-so using an outdated deed in a survey. I order a lot of title reports since the title company will figure out the current description, but this seems like an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't really need to be there.
“The owner shall record a confirmatory deed and this recorded plat shall be referenced in said deed.”
Or what? 😏
...if a map is recorded but never referenced by a deed, does that map have any authority?
Well, that's the knock on records of survey isn't it? They're just a pretty picture that doesn't actually mean anything.
