Here's the premise of my questions: A boundary survey has been done decades earlier and the corner monuments are found, staked, and undisputed. A new surveyor comes in and does a topo survey with a conventional, non-scanning robot and collects around two thousand points. He hands off the data to a civil engineer who is going to do a grading plan and overall site plan to be submitted to the AHJ to begin a permit process. It's a rural residential property in the western US.?ÿ
Questions:
1. Do you just submit the list of points exported from the data collector as a .csv file with a sketch of pertinent landmarks (such as the corners) including elevation datum and basis of bearings, and the civil engineer makes the contour lines?
2. Or do you make contour lines and deliver it in a .dxf or .dwg file?
3. What software do you (or the civil engineer) use to create the contours? Autodesk Civil 3D??ÿ
4. Do these questions make any sense?
When an engineer contracts for a survey he/she should specify the expected deliverable.
I have heard of surveyors just delivering points and letting the engineer do the mapping. I don't think much of that practice, but I wouldn't call it negligent.
I have seen examples of surveyors delivering 2d mapping and letting the engineer create the surface. Again, I dislike that practice. I've also seen engineering techs ignore the surface the surveyor delivered and create their own. Whatever...not a fan.
I use Civil3d to map my topo data and create an existing ground surface. For the last 3 years I've been delivering C3d mapping exclusively to engineers in the same room who are also using C3d. In previous jobs I would deliver the C3d drawing, plus a plain AutoCAD version (created using the "Export to AutoCAD" function), a ascii list of the points, and a LandXML edition of the surface, to outside clients whose abilities and resources I had no clear knowledge of.
There are other software packages that can be used - Carlson Survey and Microsurvey to name two. TBC (Trimble Business Center) to name another.
As Norman wrote, give them whatever they want, as expressed in your contract/agreement.
My experience is that most engineers what a dwg with the lines and contours drawn, and the surface as part of the deliverables
I'm assuming you are the surveyor in question?
To the last question: yes, the first three questions make sense.
But as far as the first three questions go, they are usually answered in the scoping and proposal phase, and solidified in the contract. If the client wants a complete TIN surface in digital LandXML format as deliverables, we can do that. If all they want is a CSV of the surveyed points and need no further work done, that's cool too.
It should be spelled out up front though. Some clients have a very specific idea of what they need, and others really don't know and need to be walked through the options.
Some want things very different from what I would typically provide for that type of service, but as long as I am doing my due diligence as a professional and they understand what they are getting, no problems.
We use C3D.
Most of our engineering clients want to develop their own drawings and we send them coded points. The first coded points I did were for an engineering company circ. 1986-1987.
We also developed coding for our own purposes about that time.
Normally for simple lil jobs I don't code, it's faster in the office to connect lines. For a dirt topo it's less than 5-10 minutes to break line the site. Usually our in house topos are for reservoirs, well pads, things like that.
For more complex topo's we use DOTs coding book partly because our engineering clients use it and partly because we're familiar with it.
The old coding was strictly numbered feature codes, the DOT coding is a mix.
For some engineers we do the topo, but that's more no than yes.
I'm not a big topo guy, I'd rather not do it, let the engineers do them, call in a flight for a large area, ect.
I've never heard of an engineer wanting to draft a topo but I don't suppose it's outside the realm of possibilities. Anyway, like others have said just ask the guy what exactly he wants for a deliverable.
It depends on what the engineer wants and what's in the contract. If neither are in sync then you can encounter issues ranging from small to substantial. In some states, like WA, the surveyor is required to prepare and sign and seal the topo drawing when completing topographic work.
I've usually done selection 2. That also gives me an opportunity to visually check the contours generated to make sure I've not got a mistake (i.e. wrong rod height or incorrectly coded breakline) in the data collected. I don't recall anyone ever asking me for just the points. The engineers or architects I've delivered files to have never expressed interest in developing the contours on their own.
WA, the surveyor is required to prepare and sign and seal the topo drawing when completing topographic work.
Not just topo work...everything out of our offices are supposed to be either stamped and signed or marked preliminary...WAC 196-23-020
The requirement is a bit onerous in my opinion. If you took this strictly to heart, it might be required to stamp every email or sketch sent out for clarification of some point, etc.
"documents that are prepared and distributed for filing with public officials, use for construction, final agency approvals or use by clients"
One might argue that a dwg is not a document, but I am not sure if that is a winning arguement.
I DO NOT send out dwg that are "stamped" because we do not send locked dwg documents...
Not just topo work...everything out of our offices are supposed to be either stamped and signed or marked preliminary...WAC 196-23-020
Correct, but the OPs question was on Topo.
Yes, i agree it is a bit onerous especially the WAC 332-130-145 topo requirement. Shooting 2 asbuilt shots on a storm manhole would be a topo. Do I need to prepare an entire map just for that? The WAC doesn't differentiate and it's incredibly annoying.
I can assure you most are not following this WAC and will probably end up like the monument destruction forms...something that's out there that few follow...then they'll create a special fund to address it when it's already a law. It's ridiculous.
Thank you all for your very helpful answers.
And to answer Rover83's inquiry, yes, you might say I'm an owner-surveyor, a PE mechanical but not an LS.
If you have a 3rd party certificate, you can apply it to CAD files without locking them. Your digital signature disappears as soon as the drawing is changed.
Kind of handy. All of my CAD files get the treatment before they go out the door.
I just completed one. Sow / contract. We did the topo and another did the ALTA Boundary work. Almost at the same time so we had to wait on the alta before we finished our deliverables all same client I first delivered after qa/qc and even did the surface linework to make sure everything was good contouring made since cked. All they wanted was the csv file . Then came back asked for the drawing linework and surface etc. I think the term is they xref my existing conditions and design on that. What they do with it is out of my scope. All i know is I thoroughly checked my contours and surface and all line work. I wanted no stone left unturned. So they requested 1ft contours Thats what they received. I did my checks at half counter interval and made sure i met the state standards for 1ft . I feel my job in current role is to protect my LS seal. Obviously he will always catch something I missed or he just likes it to be labeled differently etc etc. on the flip of that i am delivering next week nothing but linework on a job not even a title block or paper space part in a dwg format. No points they don’t even need or want labels. I set some text beside a few items just because the layers will not describe exactly what is going on. Added some notes on it just for clarity. Notes as if my ls was sealing it and meta data . Some things i am still learning not everything is the same all the time.
Now what do you do when you hire an engineer for your project?
I don’t collect points for others to process. Why would I? I am happy to provide a signed and sealed drawing along with other agreed upon deliverables. I don’t want to be credited with something that I didn’t produce. Lol
