[?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ ] there are just as many land surveyors in California who refuse to comply with the filing requirement as there are that are responsible enough to file.?ÿ
I question that assertion concerning ROSs.?ÿ The Statute is clear, any discrepancies found during a survey triggers an ROS.?ÿ (OTOH, if there are no discrepancies no ROS is required).?ÿ I can count on one hand the situations where I've found convincing evidence a survey?ÿ which reveals discrepancies has been performed (fresh pins w/Tags for example) and the required ROS was never filed.?ÿ Any LS who routinely violates Section 8762 and others is playing with fire and is his/her own worst enemy.?ÿ A quick perusal of the Board's end of year bulletin shows over 30 LS's or unlicensed individuals suffered citations or disciplinary actions in FY 2020/2021.
You'd be surprised how accurate I am with that assessment.?ÿ The Board publishes citations and disciplinary actions in each quarterly bulletin and do not repeat across published editions.?ÿ Not sure where you are seeing "end of year" bulletin...what am I missing?
You are correct.?ÿ I pulled up the Fall Bulletin and went directly to page 14 titled?ÿ "Enforcement Actions - Fiscal Year 2020-2021" and did not notice the tables only cover the second calendar quarter,?ÿ April-June.?ÿ So my estimate of 30 is off by roughly a factor of 4; should be more like 120/yr which actually reinforces?ÿ my assertion that lotsa LS/unlicensed folks are cited/disciplined each year. ????ÿ
I've looked at the Summer 2021 bulletin and behold, they did annualize board actions, it appears they review roughly 325 complaints per year and cite/discipline about 120/year.?ÿ I consider that a fairly robust enforcement effort.
It sounds like California has legislated the local municipalities to perform a Board function to review every survey for compliance, and charging the surveyor/client for the police action. In the mandatory recording states I am familiar with, the surveyor takes the plat and/or surveyor's report to the Chancery Clerk's office, sometimes called the recorder's office, pays their $30 - $50 recording fee, and it is recorded before the following day's close of business.?ÿ?ÿ
In my humble opinion, if you eliminate the review of survey plats by the unlicensed bureaucrats [in other words, rely on the licensed professional to comply with the minimum standards, laws & local ordnances], charge only your recording fees, and compliance by most survey practitioners should increase dramatically.?ÿ This may be a cause your state society can champion and at least make a recommendation to change the legislation.
I've never lived in California and hopefully I never will, but from my side of the room it appears to be a liberal bastion where it is not humanly possible to collect enough taxes and fees to feed the bureaucracy, SO-- good luck with any attempt to dial back this gravy train.
Also, even in states where the recording fee is reasonable you still have surveyors cutting corners.?ÿ So far I haven't been able to put a finger on the reason-- do they feel they can't compete on price unless they do this, or are they just lazy??ÿ Or is it something else??ÿ I tend to think it's something to do with being competitive but since I've never been in a position to propose on jobs I simply don't know.
Anyway, I have a feeling many of the problems in the surveying profession come down to not charging what it takes to do the job right.?ÿ We can't control what guys charge but at least we could try to get rid of the lowballers who cut corners to stay in business.
A simple solution would be to have mandatory recording fees be charged in addition to the cost of the survey. ?ÿIf someone??s profit margin is that tight they need to start eating PB&J sandwiches for lunch.
That is another regressive tax.?ÿ Those who can afford it the least, pay the highest percentage relative to the land/building value.
Say we had a State-designated rate of $800 to file something the client has no interest in paying to file in the first place.?ÿ Talked with a potential client a few weeks back who was wanting to cut trees and haul off junk that had accumulated on a tract he had purchased that included a single-wide trailer home in good condition.?ÿ He didn't want to accidentally cut something on an adjoiner.?ÿ He flipped out when I tossed out a ridiculously low number that I was about to increase as I mentioned certain critical stumbling blocks that would drive that number much higher.?ÿ His response was, "But, I only paid $5000 for the property including the trailer home."
Another landowner a mile away might have a $350,000 dollar house setting on a very simple tract to survey that could be done for probably a fifth of what it would take to straighten out the first guy's issues.
@mike-marks Typically only half of the annual complaints involve land surveying and of that, about 15%-18% involve the filing of a Record of Survey.
Something seriously needs to be done due to the rising costs and pricing models (e.g., deposit based is just wrong for an RS submittal).?ÿ Again, who is going to engage in an effective challenge to what is occurring?
If the maximum fee is not authorized by a duly adopted ordinance then the County is in violation of state law.
If they are violating a state law as you say then I might expect there to be some board outreach to the County attorneys on the matter.?ÿ Would you endorse a class action lawsuit against a specific county where all filing surveyors are plaintiffs?
If the the fee structure is not in compliance with what is stated in the PLS Act, the potential is always there for the Board to become involved.
The issue I am often facing is not just the cost (as outlined above), but the timeline.?ÿ San Bernardino County is currently 12-18 months out on Record of Survey checks.?ÿ We just got back one we submitted in January 2021 - first check.?ÿ And the turn around has only increased.?ÿ Before it's all said and done, it could be a 3 year map.?ÿ?ÿ
The issue I am often facing is not just the cost (as outlined above), but the timeline.?ÿ San Bernardino County is currently 12-18 months out on Record of Survey checks.?ÿ We just got back one we submitted in January 2021 - first check.?ÿ And the turn around has only increased.?ÿ Before it's all said and done, it could be a 3 year map.?ÿ?ÿ
Tom has had a difficult time hiring staff to fill empty positions for a long time at SB County.?ÿ From what I'm told public agencies are basically hiring people away from each other at this point.?ÿ The Board provides updated license lists on a regular basis to him for recruitment.?ÿ I'm sure there are others struggling too, just hear from Tom on a regular basis.
The issue I am often facing is not just the cost (as outlined above), but the timeline.?ÿ San Bernardino County is currently 12-18 months out on Record of Survey checks.?ÿ We just got back one we submitted in January 2021 - first check.?ÿ And the turn around has only increased.?ÿ Before it's all said and done, it could be a 3 year map.?ÿ?ÿ
Tom has had a difficult time hiring staff to fill empty positions for a long time at SB County.?ÿ From what I'm told public agencies are basically hiring people away from each other at this point.?ÿ The Board provides updated license lists on a regular basis to him for recruitment.?ÿ I'm sure there are others struggling too, just hear from Tom on a regular basis.
Sounds like some Counties should sub out map reviews to private surveyors like most smaller Cities do. Fortunately, my SB County isn't 12-18 months and I don't think the local surveyor's would stand for that, put the County Surveyors note on the map and force file??ÿ
Something seriously needs to be done due to the rising costs and pricing models (e.g., deposit based is just wrong for an RS submittal).?ÿ Again, who is going to engage in an effective challenge to what is occurring?
If the maximum fee is not authorized by a duly adopted ordinance then the County is in violation of state law.
If they are violating a state law as you say then I might expect there to be some board outreach to the County attorneys on the matter.?ÿ Would you endorse a class action lawsuit against a specific county where all filing surveyors are plaintiffs?
If the the fee structure is not in compliance with what is stated in the PLS Act, the potential is always there for the Board to become involved.
Thanks for chiming in on these topics Ric. Would I file the complaint against the County Surveyor? The online form requires a persons name.
Something seriously needs to be done due to the rising costs and pricing models (e.g., deposit based is just wrong for an RS submittal).?ÿ Again, who is going to engage in an effective challenge to what is occurring?
If the maximum fee is not authorized by a duly adopted ordinance then the County is in violation of state law.
If they are violating a state law as you say then I might expect there to be some board outreach to the County attorneys on the matter.?ÿ Would you endorse a class action lawsuit against a specific county where all filing surveyors are plaintiffs?
If the the fee structure is not in compliance with what is stated in the PLS Act, the potential is always there for the Board to become involved.
Thanks for chiming in on these topics Ric. Would I file the complaint against the County Surveyor? The online form requires a persons name.
Jeesh, Kyle leave the poor CS out of it, he didn't set the fee. 🙂 Pick a County Supervisor.
@edward-reading that??s exactly what I thought.
Chairman of the Board of Soups seems about right to me.
Jeesh, Kyle leave the poor CS out of it, he didn't set the fee. 🙂 Pick a County Supervisor.
That's why I asked, he is a nice guy and is playing the hand he was dealt. There is this other CS tho....
The issue I am often facing is not just the cost (as outlined above), but the timeline.?ÿ San Bernardino County is currently 12-18 months out on Record of Survey checks.?ÿ We just got back one we submitted in January 2021 - first check.?ÿ And the turn around has only increased.?ÿ Before it's all said and done, it could be a 3 year map.?ÿ?ÿ
Tom has had a difficult time hiring staff to fill empty positions for a long time at SB County.?ÿ From what I'm told public agencies are basically hiring people away from each other at this point.?ÿ The Board provides updated license lists on a regular basis to him for recruitment.?ÿ I'm sure there are others struggling too, just hear from Tom on a regular basis.
Definitely.?ÿ There is a massive shortage of staff in general and especially in the field we work in.?ÿ We have not even had a CLSA meeting in 4-5 months because no one has time to do it.?ÿ That's not blaming anyone... it's just how it is.?ÿ I worked for San Bernardino County for 5 years and it's been gutted.?ÿ People leaving through retirement, private sector, etc.; unable to recruit; and of course don't get me started on the politics of the DPW in the County.?ÿ Tom and Ryan definitely have their hands full.?ÿ?ÿ
That being said, I'm 100% for filing a Record of Survey when required and when I get my PLS, if I am the lead LS, I will do so.?ÿ However, it's a horrible situation for LS's in this area where they have to file an ROS (per PLSA) and are not getting them back in the required timeframe (also per PLSA).?ÿ Again, no blame.?ÿ Just a crappy situation.?ÿ Does not excuse an LS from doing what's required.?ÿ?ÿ
