Tomorrow we are scheduled to re-scan the structural steel of a building under construction for the second time. We are comparing as-builts with another surveyor, primarily due to the other surveyor providing less than useful deliverables. They used an Excel spreadsheet showing steel deltas relative to the state plane grid north in decimal feet. Anyone who??s ever worked with steel contractors and carpenters knows they want this deliverable relative to the building column centerlines shown in fractions of an inch. When we finally got their scan and compared the surveys they are nearly identical, both showing a few intolerances and missing members. We planned to scan on Monday, but due to poor weather, we are now scheduled for tomorrow at the same time as the other survey crew. I notified the client that it is not advisable to conduct our surveys simultaneously as we may interfere with each other's work in the same area. Besides the fact that the other surveyor appears to be taking a defensive stance for no reason other than the fact that they won??t let us explain the situation. Fun times of construction.
Their response ??if the survey goes longer than expected or you have to return, we will be assigning this cost back to the contractor.?
I would be curious as to why they did it in state plane; its actually easier to compute the deltas from the grid, as they would have already had to have them comped. We usually provide a drawing showing the differences and direction it needs to go- pretty easy to produce in cad.
I would be curious as to why they did it in state plane;
I thought the same. We have to refrain from using the word grid, because they get confused between grid north and building grid lines. Now that these idiots tied to State Plane, I'm asked to do the same. We are aligning the scans with the Revit model using an AI interface by Imerso. This takes only minutes to show every steel member that is out if tolerance and creates the report. So there is absolutely no reason to tie this to State Plane. We then create 3d snap shots showing errors.
It is raining, snowing and too windy to scan today. So we rescheduled to scan tomorrow. Im told the other crew whipped out the Total Station, took a few shots and left before noon.
I hate working with steel. Staking grid and column lines are a walk in the park but when it comes to anchor bolts, it seems they are never set where they are staked and the finger pointing begins. That's why we always locate what we stake and generate a report showing the deltas for my own internal review and back up.
We have another project in the queue next week of an as-built building with no steel, all concrete piers. We are coming in third party again. We are told the surveyor staked a few corner points and the contractor built all the concrete columns and walls using GPS.
LOL, I was hired to come in and create a system of reports for this sort of asbuilt on a project. I believe the people I replaced were referring to state plane in decimal feet as well (NAD83 etc),which was really just project control in practice.
That was the spec some engineer had written, but what all the structural guys cared about was deflection from the base, in inches, which was also a spec of course, but the communication with the sub was not the best.
I knew nothing about it when I started, but I was willing to learn. And a huge shout out to the union operators (surveyors) and structural engineers that helped me.
There is nothing more painful than to watch a concrete crew that primarily works on roads hang anchor bolts.
If the contractor’s survey crew screws up there shouldn’t be any finger pointing.
There is nothing more painful than to watch a concrete crew that primarily works on roads hang anchor bolts.
If the contractor’s survey crew screws up there shouldn’t be any finger pointing.
or stabbing in the bolts after the green concrete is firm enough to hold them mostly vertical?
Yeah. I photograph everything I set when I see the idiot patrol doing things I've never seen....
I use this as my predicated position:
If you're doing something that no one else is doing, and you're not developing the new and approved better method, then you're doing it wrong.
Some surveyors think anchor bolt asbuilt means showing a dimension to every bolt, wrong. These bolts are seldom plumb at the time of survey, and contractor can will easily bend them with a hicky bar to slide the column over the bolts. It's the column centered on the bolts that is important. They want to know if the column will align with the adjacent column.
What I like about most of the bridges I’ve staked is that the anchor bolt holes are drilled and the bolts epoxied in place. I recall a bridge that the carpenters didn’t plumb the forms. It would have been a much bigger problem if the anchor bolts had been poured in place. With the design team and the states blessing they made it work. The bolts and therefore the bearing pads were per plan.
They obviously didn't ask their client what they would like their report to show. I've always done my reports and sketches to building grid north (up) and nearest 1/8" up, down, right and left.
I've mentioned this before, but around 2007 I was called in by the owner on a quarry expansion project to check some anchor bolts for three materials silos. We checked them and they were all over the place - no rhyme or reason.
When I called to surveyor who staked them and explained what I was doing for the owner he responded: those bolts should be fine if they followed our stakeout...our initialization was hot.
Mystery solved.
Sometimes, surveyors find their way into construction... building construction to be specific. They have a somewhat bad reputation, but I think it's more to do with them being bad surveyors in the first place. Once you find your niche I don't think there's much benefit for moving from one field to the other (unless there's some very rare circumstances/incentives). Most the 'surveyors' who f'up building construction projects probable f'd up whatever they were involved in before hence why they're bouncing around.
I can only imagine the typical construction worker walking into a land surveying job. 50% won't even show up. Of the remaining half, 50% of those won't be able to find the site. Very few of them will be able to handle the terrain if hills/hiking are involved. And forget about any paperwork.
