preliminary plats

Posted by: @flyin-solo

these a standard part of the development process in your parts?

Yup...but they are generally a planning, not a real survey document (with the exception that once the preliminary plat is approved the lot sizes, or at a minimum the average lot size, are set in stone), and therefore usually prepared by the guys/gal in the office that work in crayon.?ÿ?ÿ

@james-fleming well, that's how they used to be around here- basically a draft final with contours.?ÿ increasingly around here municipal planners are requiring more and more info (very little of which is survey related), a bunch of which is "proposed", a bunch of which seems capriciously instituted (i.e.- provide record bearings and Ds on all lines- that has never been standard around here), and are aggressively asserting their power to deny approval of plats and permitting if these demands aren't satisfied.?ÿ all the while insisting a surveyor's stamp and seal appear on the document (which will never be recorded or used for anything).?ÿ have a client who is trying to plat and develop half his property- city is requiring him to do TIA, easement dedication, drainage analysis, and proposed lot layout for the entire other half despite it likely being years from anything going forward on it.?ÿ effectively asking him to predict the future and for me to sign off on it.?ÿ and the reviewer and city council now are acting like st. peter and taking no questions or pushback at all. (the funny part is getting the whole "you clearly haven't done business around here before" attitude.?ÿ when, in fact, i've been running plats through some of these towns longer than a lot of this staff has even lived in the area.)

@flyin-solo That "system" sounds horrific. A Preliminary Subdivision Plan is an integral part of the subdivision process in Mass. although I believe it is still optional. It is intended to get the discussions going, and does not result in any requirements. Only after the process has moved to the Definitive Subdivision stage do the requirements start happening. If the land can be subdivided according to all the zoning and subdivision rules, the Planning Board has little leeway to refuse to approve it. It is when waivers are asked for that the Board gets into negotiations to ask for things. It's pretty rare that a Subdivision can roll through without any waivers being requested.

I capitalize "Subdivision" because that process is distinct from dividing land by the "Approval Not Required" process. If there is sufficient road frontage, as of right, one can divide land into building lots with nothing more than a brief review. The Planning Board's signature serves only to notify the Registry of Deeds that the plan can be recorded.

@flyin-solo?ÿ

Sounds like they forgot what the word preliminary means.

In my parts a Preliminary Plat is required, and must contain approx. 90% of the Final Plat AND the entire design for ALL proposed improvements, including offsite issues. Most projects can essentially be constructed with this document. I generally estimate approx. $1,000 to convert the Preliminary Plat to the Final Plat. The majority of work involves freezing layers containing information that does not belong on the Final Plat. My personal opinion is that this process generates the maximum amount of review dollars in the event that the project is rejected.

Addressing local review comments accounts for at least 50% of my company's revenue.?ÿ Structure your contracts correctly, be up front with your clients, and accept the process - as well as all the related income!

@flyin-solo (You know me personally) We as a rule do not process the plats with the regulating authorities, we tell the client to hire an engineer to handle the preliminary plat, with their proposed design.?ÿ We merely draft the final plats for recordation, pending review comments.?ÿ Around here, the engineers quote development rules like scripture.?ÿ They are the ones with experience and they are the ones that push back, especially the ones that are as old as me or older.

Just my .02'
-kind regards

@bryan-newsome yeah, bryan, i tend to avoid it to the extent possible, but have been sucked into a few of these due to engineers who lack either the spine or the lightbulb- or both- to stand up to any of this.?ÿ?ÿ

dead serious- i had to first explain to the client's engineer, then the city staff because the engineer didn't understand and basically tossed me under the bus, that the proposed platted area didn't match the vesting deed area because various r.o.w. dedications and conveyances had occurred subsequent to the owner's purchase in 2004.?ÿ it was requested that i change either the vesting deed area or completely revise the PP to match the vesting deed area.?ÿ this dragged on for two rounds of comments because the engineer just responded with "will revise."

@bryan-newsome?ÿ

Wow, letting engineers design subdivisions? When I was dealing with?ÿ subdivisions the surveyor was the principle and occasional tasks outside the scope of a PLS, like bridge designs, and soil studies were either contracted out or done by a duel licensee on staff.?ÿ

Edit: Looks like in Alaska only a Land Surveyor can design subdivisions (for remuneration). The practice of land surveying includes, "the platting and
planning of land and subdivisions of land". There is?ÿ nothing about subdivisions in the practice of engineering.?ÿ

Yes, it's standard in our area.

It's relativity simple.?ÿ?ÿ

All base map layers turned on.?ÿ

All layers from the 70% design plans turned on.?ÿ

All layers from the 70% final plat turned on.?ÿ

?ÿ

To some extent this depends on the State and how such duties of the subdivision designer are defined.?ÿ Some States clearly place hydrological design in the Engineer category while others include this in the Land Surveyor category, as well.?ÿ

In Colorado, subdivision plats are county controlled documents. Preliminary plats allow a lay board to correct all the survey errors. Final plat is all those lay corrections stamped. They take good surveys and really buger them up. I budget 10 hours per sheet for the sole purpose of buggering it up the way the lay department lectures me.

I do the preliminary plat as a final doc. The engineering phase is essentionaly done by then. You have to have water dept sign off, which means road design, which means sewer, the drainage, soil, weed and pest. And then the big nasty one; the water distrubition plan which is the big expense usually. That I can do. The final is a simple thing then.

@flyin-solo?ÿ

Prelim plats are codified in state law in Washington, and are required to prepared and stamped (but not signed) by a PLS. Essentially a site plan with proposed lot lines, and access roads.?ÿ
I deny ones prepared by an engineer or architect at least every other month. Part of my job is to review these.