Talk to someone local. Every jurisdiction is different. I have never heard of a planning department director having the authority to vacate a road, but as noted above in some places the road may be vacated by non use. In others once even the offer to dedicate has been recorded it can't be rescinded without a lengthy and arduous public process.?ÿ
In my area of operation, once a road is dedicated and accepted by the maintenance entity such as a county, city or highway district the only way to remove the dedication is through a right of way vacation process which would be completed by submitting an application to the maintenance entity.?ÿ All vacations require a public hearing as well and notifications.
It's extremely doubtful the past owner's attempts at removing the road and lots from the records is correct.?ÿ?ÿ
You can record almost anything around here as long as it has the pertinent components.?ÿ Simply recording a document doesn't mean it's correct in the sense that you're talking about.?ÿ
@jon-payne I'm thinking the County would have to relinquish the ROW or easement in writing and file the document before reversion could come into play.
It would seem odd to me that, even if the roadway is closed of to vehicles, nobody would use that road as a walking, jogging or bicycling path over a period of three years.
@thebionicman I question the legality of the "half baked" filing, absent demonstrated proof of error that could not be addressed by correction or simple revisions.?ÿ It seems to me that that the new owner who filed the document in question did not properly do the due diligence work.?ÿ It also strikes me as odd that the County roadway improvements would not be bonded.?ÿ I've managed the inspections and documentation of completed improvements in many subdivisions here in NJ.?ÿ 99.99% of time, as improvements are constructed according to specifications in place at the time of completion, bonding and escrow accounts are released to the developer who posted them.?ÿ This, to me, indicates acceptance of those improvements.?ÿ?ÿ
@chris-bouffard This topic was a discussion I had with another local surveyor not too long ago.?ÿ Absent the questionable additional paperwork filed, the case was the same.?ÿ His stance was we (Kentucky) have a statute that addresses the three years not being used by the public results in a reversion with no further action required.
I pointed out to him the same thing you suggest - all it takes in one person claiming to have walked their dog on that public road to argue the point.
I suggested a full closure process through the fiscal court might be wiser, but an attorney he got advice from said there was no need.?ÿ I don't know which attorney advised him, but I can take a pretty good guess.?ÿ If I'm right, that attorney will likely be the next district judge.?ÿ So, if there is any issue in the future it will probably be a quick decision!
If the municipality or county or whatever thought the roads were theirs, they would have maintained them, right? So perhaps they were dedicated and never accepted? What about the utilities?
I believe that the core issue will be whether or not the lots exist.?ÿ If there are no lots, the status of the road will be moot. The municipality has all the leverage. They can make improving the road a condition of approval regardless of the status of the right of way.
AND...if the municipality does not own the roads and the lots exist, why not make it a private road? Sometimes you can get around standards that way...and put a gate on it...now you can get a premium on the lots?
Out of morbid curiosity, how did the current owner take title to whatever it is they own now- lots & blocks, or "all of those lands shown on the plat recorded in Book ____, at Page ___', or by some other descriptive language?
IMO, this is a very interesting topic- please do provide updates when you can.
Thanks
?ÿ
@chuck-beresford I like your thinking. If he bought a subdivision, that is what it still is. If he bought a single parcel, perhaps the "plat recorded in error" concept is valid. If he bought lots and blocks, I would think he could force the municipality to be responsible for the streets dedicated when those lots and blocks were created.
A development company started the project. The recession hit and the bank foreclosed. Then the bank sold the property to an attorney. Said attorney filed the half baked notice about the plat being recorded in error. Recently that attorney sold the property to our client. The deed was "all that tract or parcel of land" and referred to a plat of the property prior to subdivision "less and except road rights of way" etc. Anybody want some popcorn?
Did you ever try to sue a lawyer who will fight to the death to prove his point??ÿ It is painful to watch.?ÿ And extremely expensive to do because he has no legal fees.
... and has a fool for a client, they usually end up losing the long game.
Pride is one of the Se7en....
?ÿ
?ÿ
... and has a fool for a client, they usually end up losing the long game.
Pride is one of the Se7en....
?ÿ
?ÿ
I never realized how much difference exists in the status of roads from state to state until my latest position reviewing surveys in all the southeastern states. In some states, a dedicated road is treated more like an easement, which reverts to the owner if abandoned. In Georgia, a dedicated/acquired road right of way is usually considered a fee transaction. As Stacy has stated, the process for road abandonment is very specific. The municipality really needs to be on board to make it happen. On the county level, the "Good Old Boy System"?ÿ is alive and well. In similar situations, I have seen the County state that the road right-of way was dedicated but no building permits will be given until the roadway meets the current specifications. At this point, the issue will need to be resolved legally or politically or the developer will just be unable to go forward, while being on the hook indefinitely for a large tax bill.?ÿ In the last case, I hope the developer is an LLC. A State law clearly defining the dedication process much like the law that defined the annexation process would definitely reduce the confusion.
@stacy-carroll Yeah, it should be interesting to hear how this one plays out. I'd love to find out how a legally executed plat which apparently was initially accepted by and signed by the municipality could be deemed eligible to be vacated by extinguishing it was a valid (and legal) course of action at that time. I'm not an Attorney (and don't play one on TV), but I would assume this will raise a lot of eyebrows in the future when someone does a Chain Of Title search on any of these lands (would definitely raise a red flag as a potential "cloud on title" for the Examiners I know). As others have said here (and it is the same process in my neck of the woods), the municipal acceptance is a 2 step process- first the plat with all of the applicable signatures and notarizing, and then the second step of having the municipality formally accepting those roads, easements., etc. via a City Council meeting or something similar. Not sure once that process has begun and owners (and more importantly Lenders) have agreed to, and signed a plat for subdivision and the subsequent projected simultaneous conveyance of the lands therein, that the process can be reversed (i.e. no do-overs)... this is a new one on me, so very interested to see how this one plays out- thanks Stacy.
