I'm finally going to make the long-overdue leap into the robotic world of total stations. I've primarily used Topcon manual TS and have never had any issues with accuracy or longevity, but from reading around this forum it appears that Topcon robotics is hit or miss. I think I have narrowed it down to either the Trimble s5 (or possibly a used s5/s6) or a new Spectra Focus 35 ($15-$17k). I'm completely new to robotics, but currently, I run Survey Pro and typically work on either small-medium construction projects, topo highways and sometimes traversing deep into the woods.
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿAs I understand from reading around this forum, robots don't work as well when there are a lot of reflective surfaces or heavy brush. The Trimble S-series looks great with its Active prism technology, but the Focus 35 is much more appealing price-wise. I considered buying used, but I've seen the way many field crews treat their equipment and with all these delicate and sensitive parts I just don't think it's worth the risk to save a few thousand. I'm tempted to pull the trigger on the Focus 35, but the passive prism tech has me worried and also I just can't find that many people talking about it compared to the Trimble S-series. Can anyone advise this robot newbie?
I have been using a Spectra Precision Focus 30 for 6 years now, and it does not have an electronic prism, but I really have not had a problem with the robot locking on to my prism.?ÿ I have taken some hard shots in the woods, and some really long shots and the unit surprises me every day. However, it will follow headlights/reflectors to the point where you'll go want to give up, but if you have patience and move the robot to a better location, it will work fine.?ÿ I have done hundreds of jobs with the Focus 30.?ÿ It does look like it came from Walmart, with cheap plastic, but it was designed in Germany and made in China. But the heart of my unit, the engineering, has never let me down. It's currently in for calibration and cleaning and I am using a Geomax Zoom 90 with a Sokkia SHC5000 with Carlson SurPC, but I prefer the Focus 30 as it is much faster for me. I did have some problems with the Zoom 90 losing Bluetooth lock, and I was surprised to find that my cell phone will pair with the unit, so I entered a passcode so no one else can do that. I don't know if that was the issue.?ÿ But the decision is ultimately yours to make.
I've looked into this many times, and have probably settled on Geomax Zoom 90 as it seems good value for money - can't justify $50 for a new S series kit, and they don't seem to respond favorably to my subtle requests for sponsorship. The Zoom 90 isn't active prism, but if you look at iGage's website (advert on this forum) there's some sweet through-the-scope videos of how it tracks and locks. There's LukeNZ on this forum who has a Zoom 90 in NZ and appears to say it's great.
I recently bought an S5. It's a great gun, although the experience is not without thorns. For example, it weighs a metric F___ ton, making it less than ideal for woods work. The tracking ability is really great, although the search routine for when you do lose lock is not the very best. The optic plumb is a hassle to focus and keep that way. And the touch screen on the TSC7 assumes that the weather will always be dry. We work in the rain in the PNW.
Before that I had a Topcon PS. Still have it. It's OK. Not a feather weight either, but lighter than the Trimble. It never tracked well, although its routine for finding you when it does lose lock is good. My major complaint with that one is the latency in the radio communication. Probably a really good unit for people who do most of their work with GPS and need a robot only occasionally.
About 5 years ago the company I was with at the time bought 4 Focus Robots. There were serious reliability issues with all of them. Admittedly, the problems with one started just after it got knocked over by a car. And the crews involved were very willing to jump back to their old happy place with the non-robotic Topcons.
I had some experience with Leica GS15s in Oklahoma. You may wish to look into those or their sister brand, Geomax. The search routine rivalled that of the Topcon PS for cleverness, without the Topcon's extra hardware. I was using VIVA software, which was not super user friendly. Leica has something else now, and the Geomax's use SurvCE.
To answer your original question more directly, I think you will regret buying on the basis of price. This is a long term relationship. The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten.
I bought a new 1 second S5 back before the first of the year to replace a 10 year old S6. Basically the same instrument. Ive used robotics since the very first Geodimeter System 4000 came out, and my recommendation would be to get whatever is the highest grade instrument you can afford. When you are working by yourself, and you start having to chase a few hundredths around, its nearly impossible to figure out where the problem is. Get the most accurate instrument and keep it adjusted to alleviate a lot of headaches.
I have no experience with the other instrument to compare, but have always had good luck with the Trimble stuff.
passive prism tech
Has been serving me well for 22 years.
...and has gotten a lot better over time, too. Especially with instruments that employ cameras in the scope. As much as I love active tracking, with good procedures and knowledge of the instrument, passive tracking will work in the vast majority of situations, and doesn't require an investment in a $2k prism.
Yep very happy with xpad on Panasonic tablet running geomax zoom90. It makes exactly the same noises the Leica TS15 I was using previously on startup/measuring etc. I got 2" which is 1mm accurate to about 100m, wouldn't want instrument further from me anyway when setting out.
I prefer passive prism as less weight/prism $$$ on pole and tracking/search never been a problem for me. Only ever used geomax/Leica passive regularly though, couple times used Trimble passive I wasn't impressed.
Dealer support is essential part of purchase.
Yes, the other thing to point out is that Xpad is Android, which is probably a game changer.
Would anyone be knowing if the original S-series instruments i.e. S3, S6 and S8 that started circa 2006 (to replace the 5600 aka the Geodimeter 600, with mag drive and active and passive tracking) are now end of life, i.e no longer supported/maintained by the manufacturer?
I have not used the Focus 35 myself to make a direct comparison but it seems like a cross between the original S6 and the older 5600.?ÿ
As for active vs passive tracking I very rarely use an active target, tho to be fair I am not in an urban environment that often.?ÿPersonally I find the quality of the tracking lights on the S series to be one of the most overlooked but important features. The ones on the S Series are miles ahead of the old 5600 ones. What I could see of the lights on the little video clip of a Focus it looked like it had better lights than the 5600, but not as nice as the S series (tho that may be just camera vs real world) My eyes are not perfect but I was still using the lights at over 800 feet yesterday (something I wouldn't be able to do with inferior lights) Usually I can use the lights to aim the gun as fast or faster than having it do a search.
Also, I know Trimble software (and I believe the SuveyPro or whatever comes with the Focus) does allow you to use a small cheap bluetooth GPS ( which does NOT have to be survey grade) on the rod (or your shirt pocket for that matter) and after a few shots on a setup it will do something of a low grade localization after which you can walk behind a building or whatever and the gun will know roughly where to aim for you on the other side. .... Note to you/hint to manufacturers: If I remember right, in the older versions you had to do 4-5 shots from each setup before the software could do a localization and find you. I can't speak for the newest software versions, but it always seemed to me it would make more sense to have you hold the GPS over the gun for a second when you set it up (or even build a cheap GPS into the gun) and then all you would need is the first shot you record with the robot and the software could rotate it's search pattern localization to your coordinate system and be ready to fly.
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Also, I prefer to use a nodal point prism (SECO 6400-00 with the adapter removed to use a -40mm prism constant) both on the pole and on my backsights/traverse points etc for a couple reasons. 1) So that I don't screw up and forget to change the prism constant between traverse and topo fifty times a day... and 2) When the robot is aiming at the 6 or 8 or whatever sided 360 degree prism, no one prism likely going to be aligned perfectly with gun, and the robot doesn't look at the center of the pole like an instrument person would, it looks at the center of the glass [tho if you haven't played with a robot before, be aware that in autolock the crosshairs may not appear to dead on center, but the gun knows where center is (play with it and switch the gun to face 2 and watch how instead of the crosshairs being for example right and below center they will now appear a mirrored offset left and above center)] The greater number of lights on an active target is going to produce better aiming results than the passive tracking of the 360 prism that comes with the Focus, but it's tough to beat a nodal point prism for aiming since the center of the prism that the robot is aiming at is directly over the center of the pole.
One other thing you may want to consider, there are times when a vision system would be great. Not just to verify the gun is aimed at you and not that traverse station behind you or the car that just went by, but also when you just need a rough topo shot but in the trees, brush etc. 500 feet from the gun, and you have looked when you set up the gun that there is a hole or two in the brush where you should be able to get a shot without brushing a line from here to France, but those open spots are 15 feet in the air and you can't see back to the gun from the ground. With a vision system you can aim the gun in the direction of the hole then walk past with rod up high till you see it on the data collector, then raise or lower the glass till you get a clear shot at it.
Food for thought anyway if you are new to robots
