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Broken-back Curves

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(@field-dog)
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Does anyone have any insight they'd like to share concerning the use of broken-back curves? I'm taking a class (Highway Drafting and Route Design), and this type of curve is mentioned.

 
Posted : 05/10/2024 10:42 pm
(@not-my-real-name)
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I'm not sure what a "broken back" curve is, but I assume you mean the short tangent between the two simple curves in your diagram.

My guess for the reasoning is to allow calculation of the delta. If they were compound curves and no delta (included angle) was shown in the drawing, then the curves may not be calculated precisely.

There is similar reasoning for reverse curves.

 
Posted : 05/10/2024 11:01 pm
GaryG
(@gary_g)
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I have never heard of that nomenclature. Just seems like two curves.

 
Posted : 05/10/2024 11:06 pm
(@olemanriver)
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I have never heard that term either. Looks to me as if it is two different curves just separated by a short tangent. See a lot of these at small scale on curb islands often a little half a foot straight line at the bull nose separating the two arcs. If they were together and the radius just changes I would use compound curve. Looks as if the radius in your diagram are parallel but the bearing in to the second and delta could identify that. Just saying you might see that on a test where a corridor two and some parts of each curve are given and one must solve the rest . I am just throwing that out. FYI hint hint.

 
Posted : 05/10/2024 11:35 pm
(@john-putnam)
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I've always heard it used, and used, to reference non-tangent curves.

 
Posted : 06/10/2024 12:32 am
(@kimbob)
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Reaffirmed by Wattles

 
Posted : 06/10/2024 8:54 am
(@bstrand)
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I heard this term in school, but don't think I've seen one in the wild yet.

Maybe it's just a simple way to avoid a non-tangent curve.

 
Posted : 06/10/2024 11:14 pm
(@lurker)
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I've always thought it was a common term for two curves spaced very close together but otherwise common curves with nothing else unusual. Much like rear corners of a subdivision being designed to be .30' apart, don't do it unless it is absolutely necessary. Instead of the broken back curves, find a way to make one smooth curve instead.

 
Posted : 06/10/2024 11:28 pm
(@james-fleming)
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This is the situation I've heard described as a broken back curve....

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 3:39 am
(@bstrand)
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I assume the PCC is point of compound curve but based on the diagram it's a lie? 😏

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 3:48 am
(@not-my-real-name)
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@KimBob I'm pretty sure I don't know what "Reaffirmed by Wattles" means. Care to elaborate?

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 4:11 am
(@olemanriver)
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I was intrigued by this verbiage and started digging around. So on the engineer side this term broken back is used I had just never heard of this before. Anyway it is frowned upon based on what I could find but sometimes they just do it anyway. I also found some training on how to take both of these two broken back curbs and for design standpoint make them into a compound curve so you might be getting into that which the math seemed pretty neat to do this and remove the tangent piece between the two

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 5:15 am
(@jon-payne)
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I recall the term from a route surveying course decades ago, but I don't recall ever seeing one on any plans in practice. If I can attach it, here is a scan from "Route Surveying" third edition by Pickels and Wiley (1951). It has a brief 1-1/2 page discussion.

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 6:13 am
(@james-fleming)
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I assume the PCC is point of compound curve but based on the diagram it’s a lie?

Point of crunched curvature

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 10:02 pm
(@norman-oklahoma)
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On pg 4-22 of “Writing Legal Descriptions” Wattles states that a broken back curve is merely another term for a non-tangent curve.

 
Posted : 07/10/2024 10:18 pm
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