It seems that the concern I had with the language in the 2016 standards was heard, and it has been altered.
For the record, it has been many years since I've actually called One-Call/811. It's a website now. I like that.
It has been taking up to a month after the request for them to get marks down, even though Oregon state law requires them to get it done in 10 days for pre-survey requests.
In my experience 811 locates cover only public or quasi-public utilities such as water, power, gas and sanitary. On-site private utilities such as landscape irrigation, storm drainage and such are not marked and require a private locate service. I routinely utilize private locate services when working on a pre-design project, at the owner's expense, but seldom on a simple ATLA.
The new wording on Table 'A' item 11 is a little vague in the 2021 standards. The 2016 item specifically noted 811 locates while in 2021 it mentions private utility locate requests. The confusing part is the 2021 note to 'clients, insurer and lender' that seems to infer that item 11b refers to 811 calls which are not private locates.
Fun note, neither Washington nor California will locate for pre-design surveys. In Oregon the 811 service is given up to 10 working days to locate for pre-design surveys.
Fun note, neither Washington nor California will locate for pre-design surveys.
I had fair luck getting locates in Clark County, WA while working out of Vancouver - with a Vancouver address and a 360 area code. Oregon people fail to appreciate how deep the resentment is that SW Washington people harbor for Oregonians.
Much as Oregonians do for Californians. We like Californians just fine as long as they confine themselves to California.
Washington's law changed a couple of years ago. Now they will give you a list of utilities but that is it.
California gets really nasty about it. Years ago I had one of the locate providers threaten to sue me over it. Now I just have the client call it in.
in New Mexico, I was challenged by two less than super intelligent guys working for a nationally known utility locator, and when they foisted their proof to me on the iPad thyey had taken the photos of the suspect work....I asked what time had the photos been taken? They both exclaimed "Look at the time stamp!"
To which I said, " I dont care about the time stamp, I'm more concerned about the angle and direction of the sun...low and from the East. Your time stamp is saying it's noon, but the planetary physics are saying something else...
needless to say, I put them on notice, got the PUC involved and then contacted ElPaso electric to work their engineering team to get the GIS and other data so I could get our potholing guys on the job.
not all of them are that bad...
I've had decent luck getting 811 locates by telling them I'm planning on pounding a 24" long piece of rebar in the ground.
I think design locates are technically still an option here on the website, but they won't show up.
IMHO The only usefulness of an 811 design locate ticket is to get a list (and point of contact) for all utilities with facilities in the area of the survey.
Any field markings are still performed by the same staff that perform the markings for excavation. This is not an engineering task nor is it performed by trained staff who will try and actually track down utilities with some degree of accuracy. 811 is a damage prevention consortium whose main focus is avoiding liability. The marks are not there to "locate" utilities; they are there to put excavators on notice that "something " is "somewhere" nearby and if they hit that something, it's their dime.
That is how I used to handle it, until they came down on me for it. I've come to the conclusion that if it is that important, the client can pay for a private locate service.
The whole locate thing is getting out of hand. I know of at least one firm in Oregon that got their hands slapped on by OSHA for hitting a new utility while place monuments for a new plat. Technically you need to call for locates, and pre-mark the point, before you set rods. Keep in mind that Oregon law establishes a 1-foot utility exclusion zone around new plat monuments, utilities are supposed to be 36" below the grade and 5/8"x30" rods are the standard plat corner per statute.
The Virginia Attorney General determined that the act of a surveyor driving rods into the ground was excavation and subject to the 'Underground Utility Damage Prevention Act' and must call in an '811' ticket.
Utility 'operator' included both public and private utilities. Utility lines include: conveyance of water, sewage, telecommunications, electric energy, cable television, oil, petroleum products, gas, or other substances, and includes but is not limited to pipes, sewers, combination storm/sanitary sewer systems, conduits, cables, valves, lines, wires, manholes, attachments, and those portions of poles below ground.
So, back to ALTA Attachment 'A', it would appear that a call to '811' (in Virginia) to mark utilities would satisfy item 11(b) "markings coordinated by the surveyor pursuant to a private utility locate request"
Just fyi, a request to locate private utilities is not the same as a request for a private company to locate utilities. Some utilities are private in some locales and some are public in others.
Just wondering what the ALTA/NSPS working group intended for item 11 (b)?
Here in Colorado, they passed legislation in 2018 that requires the UFO to be able to provide design engineer drawings and be able to prove location with the 18in either side and depth. Game changer for sure, yet still stupid and locate avoiding contractor field people hit gas electric water Telco lines everyday.
People died a year or so ago when a gas line was nicked and then blew up a bldg it seeped Into.
Judgement for 32 million.
locates work, but only when they get requested.
evidence from plans requested by the surveyor and obtained from utility companies
Read it carefully. The only expectation placed on the surveyor is to make the request. It's up to the utility company to provide the plans.
JBS
