I don't use these platforms as my main work flow but wouldn't IntelliCAD be a viable option to acquire familiarity with CAD??ÿ I purchased that in a PRO version a long time ago for a very reasonable cost.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
@native1?ÿ
I remember your story.
The fact that they only offered to get you involved with the LS/CE as a way to keep you is the evidence.
Glad you had the courage to leap.(and support)
Your net will Appear.
you're going to have a great career, never let someone or some company devalue you, and if they do, leap again.
Take the college/community college class. The discipline of attending class is invaluable and you'll meet some interesting people.
You also may be able to buy a student edition of software at a very favorable price or otherwise be able to access the school software from home.
The course won't cover all of the tricks and secrets that make the software productive, but it will put you in a stronger position to discover those on your own or understand them quickly from mentors.
I tried to take an ACAD class way back before I knew anything about it.?ÿ I lasted one night, got tired of just drawing lines and circles.
I learned hands-on, working alongside someone who knew it, and the company felt that a week of me doing that was worth their investment.?ÿ And it was.?ÿ I learned much more than what a formal class would have taught me, in my opinion.?ÿ And was productive from then on.
Kind words,
thank you
?ÿ
I appreciate the advice from everyone on this forum. It??s helped me think things through and give me some guidance as well.
?ÿ
Im looking into online cad classes that might be able count toward something more in the future. It would be nice to have my time count toward something more in the future, ?ÿIf I needed ti pursue a bachelors for licensing?ÿ
Have to get myself a new laptop and start learning in my free time.
?ÿ
thank you to everyone for your time and words
@jon-payne It use to be a watermark. I hope they fixed that. ?ÿA survey firm I did a lot of training for years ago on TGO and Survey Controller had a bright young man going to school. He had just started with the company and already had the student version. The owner of the company told him he could use a particular work station for his class project. ?ÿWe hat way he could plot it and such and have the different survey managers review and help point things out. ?ÿ Well he downloaded the student version dwg from his computer and opened it on the true version. ?ÿEvery dwg that came from that true version desktop computer now inherited the watermark. ?ÿ It was a disaster. They finally git it resolved. ?ÿIt was how auto-cad was protecting themselves. ?ÿAfter that the boss told all students either use our or use yours don't mix lol .
CMS CAD is one of the cheaper versions of IntelliCAD. It uses the same CAD engine as Carlson Survey, MicroSurvey, etc. The USB option would allow you to jump workstations if that matters. I'm not affiliated with them, but IntelliCAD is one of the better CAD packages you can own rather than rent/lease.
Take a look at https://traverse-pc.com/
It is realtively inexpensive, awesome tech support and reads and writes DWG files if you need to.
I am considering an online bachelors now if it exists. 100% online.
i have an associates, so it would shave some time off.
Im in California and do plan to become licensed here,
but I want to move back to my home state of Michigan. I want to become licensed there and they require a bachelors.
I wrote the board and asked them in having a Cal LS negates the need for a bachelors to sit for the Michigan PS, and it’s a no go.
Thats too bad. Now I have to find a way to cover the cost of a degree.
@native1 I've heard good things about this one: https://online.umaine.edu/svt/
The new rules for MI PS licensing came out this morning at 8:45am (EST):
https://ars.apps.lara.state.mi.us/Transaction/RFRTransaction?TransactionID=1386
It looks like the baccalaureate degree requirement is still in place, but it appears there are updates too.
I don't know your particular degree situation, but maybe finishing something with a BA/BS and the NCEES route is a workable path:
PART 2. EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, AND EXAMINATIONS
R 339.17201 Educational requirements.
Rule 201.
An applicant for licensure shall provide proof, as directed by the department, verifying 1 of the following to satisfy the educational requirements under the code:
(b) A NCEES credentials evaluation that verifies the applicant received a baccalaureate degree or higher and satisfies the NCEES surveying core program requirements found in the NCEES Surveying Education Standard.
R 339.17202 Professional surveying experience; verification; educational credit for experience.
Rule 202.
(1) Under section 2004(3)(a) of the code, MCL 339.2004, an applicant shall document not less than 8 years of professional experience in professional surveying, including not more than 5 years of education. An applicant shall satisfy the requirements of this rule to receive credit for professional experience.
(2) Professional surveying work that is performed while under the supervision of a professional surveyor licensed in this state or licensed or registered in another state or a province of Canada and involves work in 1 or more of the following areas qualifies as professional experience: (list omitted)
(3) An applicant for licensure shall provide proof, as directed by the department, verifying 1 of the following to receive credit for professional experience in surveying work:
(a) Except as otherwise provided under subrules (1) and (4) of this rule, the applicant has obtained not less than 4 years of experience practicing as a licensed or registered professional surveyor in another state or a province of Canada.
(b) All of the following: (list omitted)
(4) The department shall grant not more than 5 years of professional experience credit to an applicant holding a degree that satisfies the requirements under R 339.17201. Credit is limited to the following amounts:
(a) Not more than 4 years of professional experience for a baccalaureate degree. Experience is granted for only 1 baccalaureate degree.
(b) Not more than 1 year of professional experience for a post-baccalaureate degree. Experience is granted for only 1 post-baccalaureate degree.
thanks for the update
i only have an Associate of Science from Delta College
It looks like I still need a bachelors degree.
Im not exactly familiar with the previous standards - but I’ll have to sort this out to make the correct decision.
Too bad they didn’t lessen the education requirements. Not to water it down by any means. But hey, if you can pass the test then what’s the issue?
Just bummed about re-entering college and complaining.
Thanks for letting me know about the rule updates. I literally just got an email yesterday saying a Cal LS doesn’t change any Michigan requirements to sit for their PS exam
Hold on there, speedy...
Those are the "rules", but as far as I know, the rules cannot conflict with the law and be more restrictve where the law is clear.
The Occupational Code of Michigan ("the law") has been open many times to "fix", and each time the topic of "degree requirement" has come up. The engineers and the architects "fixed" their respective degree requirements, but the language for survey licensing has not changed to reflect a 4 year degree requirement.
This is what the law says:
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bomucs5510og1a55nlkbgl55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-299-1980-20.pdf
(excerpt):
(3) In order to be licensed as a professional surveyor, an individual must meet all of the following:
(a) Provide documentation of at least 8 years of professional experience in professional surveying satisfactory to the board of professional surveyors, including not more than 5 years of education.
(b) Provide evidence of completion of a degree in professional surveying or a related degree that included professional surveying courses acceptable to the board of professional surveyors.
(c) Pass the professional surveying fundamentals and professional practice examinations or provide equivalent proof of qualification to practice professional surveying acceptable to the department and the board.
(d) Be of good moral character.
I don't see anywhere in "the law" where it says you must have a Bachelor's Degree for surveying.
In fact, it appears that the law for survey licensure explicitly leaves out any specifics with respect to a 2 year degree, 4 year degree, BA, BS, etc.
Why?
Well, where do you get a degree in professional surveying?
There is no such thing that I am aware of.
And even if there was, what does a degree in professional surveying mean? 2 year degree? 4 year degree? I don't know.
I seem to recall the State of Michigan, and their Licensing Board having promulgated rules that exceeded their authority and scope of rule making in the past. That's why they open up the rules and the law to "fix" it so often.
Where as it says the following for architects: (a) Provide evidence of completion of a first professional degree or further degree in architecture satisfactory to the board of architects.
"First professional degrees" can be undergraduate or graduate, and may be classified as bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degrees.
And it says the following for engineers: (b) Provide evidence of completion of a baccalaureate degree in engineering from an accredited program or its equivalent, as determined by the board of professional engineers.
"Baccalaureate degree" means exactly that.
The law appears to be on your side. Use it.
The Board, the Department, and the Rules are trying not to admit they may be wrong. Happens all the time. If you ever attend a State Licensing Board meeting, I think you'll change your mind about just how smart those folks really are.
.... or its equivalent, as determined by the board of professional engineers.
That is a mighty big loophole. This wording leaves open the option for the board to accept life experience (or just warm, friendly feelings) as the equivalent of a degree.
So that is interesting, because I just emailed them a few days ago about this. If holding an LS in a diff state would allow me to bypass their educational requirements. I figured the answer is “no”, but why not ask?
This is what they replied with:
”
Hi Joshua,
The State of Michigan does not preapprove for NCEES exam. You’ll need to contact NCEES (800-250-3196) to ask if they will allow you to take the PS exam without holding a bachelor’s degree.
To obtain a MI PS license, you will be required to provide proof of completing an ABET accredited surveying degree at the bachelor level or higher; this is no waiver of this requirement.
NOTE: your CA license status has nothing to do with the MI license requirements or your exam eligibility.”
so I am quite confused. I am not at all saying having a bachelors in an ABET survey-related degree to be able to sit for the Michigan PS exam is a bad thing.
I’m just figuring out life choices, and the sooner I can clear this up the sooner and more exciting my life becomes as I work toward becoming licensed here, in California, and moving hopefully in the next few years back to Michigan, becoming licensed there and carving out a life for my family.
