Thanks for your reply. At least in my 2022 version of access, the number of observations in settings only pertains to shooting in "averaged observations" mode and not the normal "angles and distance mode". We also found settings for EDM standard deviation tolerance I believe it was and adjusted it to be way looser tolerance and it has no effect, still takes 7+ seconds every time.
What are you measuring to say you can't use the track mode for everything outside of control? I have shot control occasionally (by accident) with track mode and even then it was as good as the standard mode.
Also the images you have shown with some of the settings with the standard errors etc. are for
processing in TBC, they don't effect the accuracy of the measurement you
are taking they are the standard errors for the adjustment in TBC.
Please correct me if I am wrong!
What are you measuring to say you can’t use the track mode for everything outside of control? I have shot control occasionally (by accident) with track mode and even then it was as good as the standard mode.
Yep. The only issues we might run into using active + tracking is if the diodes get damaged, or if we're observing at more than ~15-20 degrees off the horizontal. Once you get past that vertical angle, passive generally works better.
Also the images you have shown with some of the settings with the standard errors etc. are for processing in TBC, they don’t effect the accuracy of the measurement you are taking they are the standard errors for the adjustment in TBC.
The EDM settings are max tolerances for observations - those will impact the measurements themselves in the field. When a measurement is initiated, it will not stop observing until the standard deviation of the designated number of observations is below that threshold.
The instrument precisions do not affect accuracy, they are for use during post-processing - assuming the office staff choose to use the JXLs rather than the project settings for standard errors, which would be unusual.
Thanks for the info about those settings. The weird thing is regardless of that setting, when I measure it says "measuring" for about 5 seconds, then it shows 0.000m standard deviation for the last couple seconds of the measurement.
Everyone is so different when it comes to surveying. So many guys say we shouldn't use the mt1000 for anything other than rough topo and others say I'm crazy for using semi active mode. I'm using it less than I was based on your guys input but lately I've spent a lot of time waiting for it ... laying out gridlines within 0.007m or so...and shooting sets of bolts for the structure, I've probably spent 60+ minutes of "measuring" in semi active so far on this job.
I could use a different prism but there are 2 other total stations on site, and a lot of possible targets to accidentally get stuck on.
I did want to say in the survey style i used all defaults for the 5 measure avg. not 2 like yours. If i were setting anchor bolts I wouldn’t be using the mt1000 i would probably have a small nodal p nut. And short rod at most. I would establish the baseline or cl colums etc. a steel tape would be attached to my hip and i would be chaining and cking. Thats me. I did a job 7 months ago that i established an best I could baseline on an existing building no coordinates. Set a offset cked it then steel taped almost all columns is much quicker and made a small template for aligning the column lines and set anchor bolts. Had a chalk box. Pulled every diagonal and was done . Yeah lots of people do a lot of things differently. And not always do people get told the accuracy requirements correctly. I had a boss once that wanted rough grade points to the hundreth did i set them that tight hell know. Its a 4 lathe with a cut to feet. . Lol.
Just to clarify, we weren't laying out the anchor bolts, just the gridlines. Another company was laying out the anchor bolts and they were using a mini prism on a small pole. We were just asked to tie them in to check for any big blunder.
Also the 2 vs 5 "averaged observations" as I said I experimented with it and realized it had no effect on the measurement speed. Then someone informed me that it is just for shooting in "averaged observations" mode.
So we have been through everything, there is apparently no way to measure any faster than about 7 seconds with the mt1000 in semi active mode... at least not with the 2 s5's and one s7 we have, and to reiterate, this is with 3 different data collectors (one was a tsc5), all different versions of access.
Everyone is so different when it comes to surveying. So many guys say we shouldn’t use the mt1000 for anything other than rough topo and others say I’m crazy for using semi active mode. I’m using it less than I was based on your guys input but lately I’ve spent a lot of time waiting for it … laying out gridlines within 0.007m or so…and shooting sets of bolts for the structure, I’ve probably spent 60+ minutes of “measuring” in semi active so far on this job.
For sure. It's frustrating to see how many folks get locked on a "you cannot EVER do this" or "<i style="font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(--bb-body-text-color);">you must ALWAYS do this" mentality. I don't think many people actually read the datasheets or the best practices manuals, or go to the webinars or do formal training. It's often a lot of word-of-mouth stuff that may or may not have any facts behind it.
In my opinion it's all about testing out the various methods to see what works and what doesn't - there's no such thing as the perfect solution, and different applications demand different tools or workflows.
Dealers want to sell you stuff, so they often gloss over the technical details and leave that for the customer to figure out.
Surveyors tend to want to operate the exact same way every time, rather than adapting to the gear they have and the project goals to come up with best practices for the task at hand.
Combine the two attitudes and you get a lot of misinformation floating around about what is "good" versus "bad".
It's worthwhile to note that the MT1000 has a spec of 5" angular accuracy, which translates to about 2.5mm for a 100m-distance observation. That's about on par with the Leica GRZ prisms, if I remember correctly (at least if you're using the arrow on top to point at the instrument).
I would personally switch to a shortened mini/peanut prism, or run in semi-active mode on a short rod, for laying out gridlines. For staking I often make use of the "turn to" function coupled with the video feed, rather than trying to get it to follow me all over the place. Tell it to turn to the point, watch where it goes, move there, get locked, and dial in the stake point. I rely on the tracking a lot more for topography/mapping.
The AT360 is better than the MT1000 for vertical but does rely upon DR for the actual measurement, so it is not well suited to topography unless it's a very open site.
I was taught "survey to the degree of accuracy required". Also lots of opportunities to experiment as you work and learn what difference things make. I've had pretty good luck with the results from the mt1000, it's just the speed when I want to measure that annoys the hell out of me. Also I wish I had the s7 with the video feed, as I was used to a Sokkia robot with the rc5 (search finds the prism on the rc5 everytime as long as it's pointed the right way), then upgraded to the old Leica tcrp1203+ and powersearch was amazing. You tell it the shorter way to turn and it has a fan beam so it will see the prism if you're within like 30 degrees vertical and still lock on, no joystick required. The s5 I had to get used to always using the guidelights and it has to be almost spot on vertical to find the prism initially. GPS search can work good only on certain jobs where you're always pretty far from the robot and only after you've walked a good arc around it first.
I feel like I would be much happier with this machine if I had never used the Leica robot, because it is still much better than the Sokkia ix was overall, because the tracking was so terrible on that one.
I mainly do construction layout in subdivisions and occasional rural jobs...but I still keep 3 tripods in the truck. 2 extra tribrachs in case all of a sudden I need to do something that I want the extra accuracy.
Gotcha. Why are s5’s are not taking but a few seconds to shoot in semi active mode vs your 7” time frame I don’t know. We tested again today and never saw it take that long in std edm and semi active. We timed it and stop watch on iPhone was always less than 4”. I had to check another crews points and bump them today as he was not paying attention and stored them outside the tolerances. And used only std edm semi active. So it was about 10 different points bumping and re shooting. We didn’t see much difference in the time. I think you got a bad batch of something.
Funny you talked about the short rod. Set 3 points today a couple yesterday with one. I could only see down low so yanked it out the bag. Crew chief said i didn’t know you put that in there. I said man i am to old to keep walking back to the truck. I load everything up so i have it. Of course as i am laying on the ground looking through bushes getting locked. The boss drives by and honks lol.
I see the same problem as Mike, but with an S6 and MT1000 in Std mode.
I'm wondering if it is something to do with the controller connection to the instrument.
I am using radio.
What sort of connection do you have?
It may not be an issue for cable or bluetooth
Wow. That seems strange. I am using radio as well. So mine are few seconds yall. Are seeing 7”. Sounds now like a manufacturer issue. In building these things. Something has to be going on for that much did fences. I can understand outliers. Do they build them all in same plant or different ones.
LOL, part of the reason we don't frequently use the short poles is that usually we can't see down that low due to all the obstacles littering the sites we work at. Since it is often solo work, I am unfortunately walking back to the truck to get a different pole, however peanut and plumb bob can go right in my vest if I might need it.
Hope the boss didn't think you were napping. LOL.
Do you know what version of Access you have? I wonder if its something that has crept in since 2021? I believe ours we all bought in 2022 or late 2021.
I assume they are built in Sweden and that's where the certificate came from, but I couldn't find a label on the gun itself saying where it was built. I know my old Leica is made in Switzerland and the newer conventional (TS07's) in the office are built in Mexico, wouldn't be out of line to assume they might have changed manufacturing plants for some of these.
I will try bluetooth one of these days, I have only used it that way once when another crew borrowed my radio....but we did layout manually with the passive prism that day, so I wouldn't have seen the issue. I assume most guys are using radio all the time though.
