I haven't posted in a long time. I've been busy all summer doing house repairs in my spare time. I recently made a break through that I felt I had to share. I know not everyone shares my hatred for the s series robots, but as a solo (usually) user one of my biggest complaints is the unreliable DR mode. Reflector less is a very important tool to me and I was using it a lot with the Leica 1203 running field genius. I previously did get it working somewhat with Trimble access but it had some major issues.
I finally decided to play around with it a little bit again and I've now used it several days exclusively. I did have integrated mode working (which is great for gps search) but it will not reliably continue to follow the active prism (which is needed to mount the r12i).
However using it with just the grz4 prism it's been nearly flawless. Lately I've had to keep lending my s5 out to another crew as we're transitioning away from all the remaining Leica conventional manual total stations that a couple of crews still used. This and wanting to still be able to use reflector less pushed me to play around and see if I could make this work and it seems like one setting to do with powersearch got search working reliably. I now usually search with "powersearch" mode but it really seems like it's actually using GPS search, so I attempt to do the usual walking around the total station so that it might actually work. If not I have to point it at the robot and use regular search. The joystick is still not extremely functional but it is not really great even with the s5.
If anyone else is interested in this I can provide the settings and version of access I'm using.
My experience with the S5 and the active prism is that it finds that thing instantly if it is anywhere in the field of view, snaps to it, and holds on with a bulldog grip. You can't shake it off if you try. That, IMO, is the major selling point of the Trimbles. If that is not your experience something is wrong.
On the other hand, the passive tracking is sort of anemic. Perhaps there is a setting you need to find.
Great to hear you have something that works.
I would be very keen to know what settings you ended up using.
Also keen to understand your prism settings
Thankx
=Jim=
My experience over the past 2 years (with 2 different s5's, not just mine) is that it is slightly better at holding onto the prism (doesn't matter if it's active prism or a regular one, it will hold onto my dirt old vest in passive mode), than the Leica robot through some thick brush, or random obstructions, but if you walk past a large object the Leica has 5 seconds of prediction which works very well and it can pick you up on the other side of the obstruction. It's definitely not a miracle machine, it just has some strengths in some areas while the Leica does in others. But for my usage the Leica is definitely better. Still not sure why none of you guys have noticed that it takes 8-10 seconds to shoot in semi active mode with an s5 or s7 using a tsc7 of various versions of access or the tsc5 I had at the beginning. When I use the Leica with Trimble access it's slightly slower than when using fieldgenius, but still much faster than using the s series with the mt1000.
Hey Jim,
Here's my survey style I use. It's a Leica TCRP1203+ but it works fine with the 1100 series option in survey style, at least with the shown settings and a couple tweaks to the search settings once connected. I did have to experiment a bit to get it to work reliably but now I'm so impressed with it that I have a hard time understanding why there was so many issues with fieldgenius and the Sokkia ix robot before I inherited this old Leica and used it with fieldgenius.
And for prism constants I just made a new constant for the Leica 350 grz4 prism with the difference between Trimble and Leica's oddball constant and checked to make sure it worked. I can setup on a point I set with the Trimble, with the Leica robot and get 0.000m on the backsight distance.
If it took me 5 seconds to get a shot with the s5 and Trimble access I would be upset as well. I have never had it take that long to get a shot unless the prism was blocked. Because the Trimble with multi track can lock but not be able to get a distance in active mode. It can find the target in some serious thick stuff but not return a distance.
Now i will say this the DR in leica has a smaller beam. So be careful and understand the beam on the Trimble s5 its a wider beam so not as good in certain situations for sure. I wish i could run your gear for an hour I believe you have gremlins living in that thing. You have most definitely had some issues i have never seen.
My problem with everyone saying it's a gremlin in my gear is that it's the same through 2 different s5's and an s7 using two different tsc7's and a tsc5....5 seconds would be nice but it's 7-10 seconds on all of them. The sx12 shoots in a couple of seconds but that's not an active prism. We are running different versions of access and still getting the same results. Maybe they changed something in the newer s series or the active prism...but it affects all 3 I've used and we've already gone through the settings and the "averaged observations". There is no fix that I know of. They're just slow to shoot unless you use only active mode, or passive mode or just store in tracking (instant). The only way I could imagine you guys getting shots as fast as you're saying is if it's just an instant store in tracking.
The DR seems about 50/50 whether it shoots accurately or not. I can sometimes use it for a check to a previous shot point but I don't want to use it to tie in something important.
Yeah i have not had that long for a shot. On DR depending on the angle you are shooting interior corners of a building etc the wider beam is frustrating at times for sure. I cheat a little and keep a white hotel card and use that when i had a helper but solo i just paid attention at my set ups. I believe i can turn face 1 and face 2 in less than 5 to 10 seconds which i did a lot doing solo work. I would do the same to my bs setup so when i was shooting corners I basically had a direct and reverse on those. Just depending on situation. I sorta remember you posting a video of some slow behavior on the old site. I guess the dealership never fixed that issue.
Sorry about all the problems for sure. Hard to figure it all out long distance. I mean i have had some issues before but usually nothing like yours. Once in a while it gets quirky. I had a issue a few weeks ago that the software became very slow as i was navigating through the compute a point to show a chief a trick. I did a rebooting and it went back to normal.
So you are using a Leica instrument, measuring to a Trimble prism and recording with Access?
I couldn't reply to the post I wanted to (Jim's) but no I'm only using the Leica grz4 prism or the Leica round prism (for a backsight) with the correct prism constants for the Leica. It does not seem to like the mt1000 although it may have been because I was using integrated mode at the time (for GPS search). I have had it stay connected and tracking successfully with the Leica 360 prism for a full 2 hours or so without any problems on one job and used it multiple times other than that.
I'm working with another party chief today using his s5 and tsc7 and just confirmed that his does still take about 8 seconds to measure in semi active mode.
Reflector less when I tried using face 1 face 2 it would just show a huge difference in angle since one face would hit the corner and the other would miss and hit the next house (even when sighting a little ways in from the corner to try not to miss it). Another party chief didn't believe me when I was telling him until he tried his s7 and it was exactly the same. He was actually quite mad about it.
And no we haven't brought it up with the dealer since our other guys aren't as impatient as me and also frequently run them manually with a passive prism.
Well, nobody else seems to have that issue. You are mixing trimble and leica gear for some reason. I think that's your problem right there. Reflectorless has never been an issue either, but then I've never heard of anyone using it in F1/F2. I generally use it as a check for out of the way building corners and whatnot, but I've also used it on rare occasion for a rough resection with decent results.
Reflector less when I tried using face 1 face 2 it would just show a huge difference in angle since one face would hit the corner and the other would miss and hit the next house (even when sighting a little ways in from the corner to try not to miss it).
When's the last time Check & Adjust was run on that instrument? Are the crews running it when the instruments come back from a dealer calibration?
And no we haven’t brought it up with the dealer since our other guys aren’t as impatient as me and also frequently run them manually with a passive prism.
Seriously....take it up with the dealer. That's not normal, and you shouldn't have to stand for instruments that are not operating within specs.
I don't get out in the field that much anymore, but last week I worked with both an SX12 and an S7. Running the SX with a TSC7 and the S7 with a TSC5, and they were comparable (1-3 seconds) for measurement time, both passive and semi-active, and F1/F2 splits were around 1-2", maybe 3-5 at the outside for some short, steep (~50 degrees zenith) observations.
I have to wonder if your firm got a bad batch/production run of S5 instruments? Even the S6 instruments I used to run (that were circa 2007 production) were getting pretty close to what the S7 does today for speed.
I don't know what to tell you. You realize that I am using the Leica because of the issues we have with the Trimble right? So I'm not sure how that could be the cause.
