There are several universities out there, U of F being one of them that offer a Geomatics Certificate. The credits from these certification courses can eventually be used toward a full degree if the student takes the program that far. I am curious as to all of your professional opinions on an employee with a university certificate, as opposed to CST program put on by the NSPS. From what I have read many of the people on here somewhat disregard the CST program. Any education could be seen as a step in the right direction, but how fruitful could the certification be?
I have my CST III (Boundary), as well as having completed the CST I & II. Those tests are no joke, you're not going to pass them if you don't know the material. Our pass / fail rate as a company on the CST I is right at 50%, and based on the preparatory material and practice tests I've seen for the FS the CST III is right there with it as far as the knowledge you need to have and the difficulty.
I also have a close affiliation with the Geomatics program here at Nicholls State, but they don't offer a certificate, only a four year degree. The program is extremely rigorous and the grads come out knowledgeable and well prepared; the only complaint I've heard from surveyors is that they only get one semester of CADD.
I agree that any education has value, whether it's a step toward getting licensed or simply for one's own personal and professional development. I wouldn't weight the CST over the Geomatics Certificate; if the certificate program covers the same material that the Geomatics students here take then it's less about traditional surveying and more about the science. Our grads come out with two semesters each of calculus, calculus based physics, GIS, Measurement Science, and Photo, as well as classes in Geodesy, GPS, Boundary, Construction, and a couple semesters and labs of basic surveying (Ghilani - Wolf).
Brian McEachern, post: 410739, member: 9299 wrote: I am curious as to all of your professional opinions on an employee with a university certificate, as opposed to CST program put on by the NSPS
Apples & oranges
The CST program is a series of tests to get a baseline idea of the certificate holders knowledge, there is no set instructional (as far as I know) element. A university certificate indicated the competition of a certain number of college level credit within the major.
FWIW - I would really like to see the US educational system embrace graduate/postgraduate certificates the way there are used in the rest of the anglophone world; where a holder of an existing degree receives a certificate when they take a set number of college classes
A few high quality 32 credit hour online geomatics programs, coupled with state licensing requirements that allow a candidate with a bachelors degree in any subject plus a graduate certificate to be eligible for licensure (along with ABET accredited program graduates) would go a long way to help the profession. People who fall into the profession after finishing college in another field of study would have an easier path to gather the educational requirements for licensure, and every state wouldn't feel the pressure to cobble together a four year program of questionable quality just so state residents could acquire a surveying degree without incurring the outrageous debt involved in out of state tuition.
You mean like this one? http://sci.tamucc.edu/CSCI/GISC/certificates/index.html
Exactly...I hate to say it because their egos are so big already, but I think Texas is the perfect model for the other states. Along with the way the GIS community has embraced the post graduate certificate.
Brian,
I agree with Lee, any education is valuable. I was once a CST level 2 office I believe. I found out about the program, and took it when I was still in college, back in 1995/1996 era. I maintained it for a short while, until I became licensed. Lee is correct, it is definitely a tough exam. I want to implement that program here at my firm in the near future.
I would not hold one over the other, but the college classes will probably have more theory and broader knowledge base that a CST only. I am starting my first semester at Great Basin, and I just want the education, and eventually the degree. I enjoy the learning aspect of the profession.
Is the Texas A&M Master's an online program?
Here in LA you can get licensed with any four year degree as long as you have the 30 hours of approved survey courses, the list of which is available on the LAPELS web site. So I believe this is pretty much in line with what James Fleming is advocating.
Personally I'd like to see an alternate pathway to licensure that's more along the lines of an apprenticeship, but that subject was beat to death on another thread.
Jimmy Cleveland, post: 410759, member: 91 wrote: Is the Texas A&M Master's an online program?
Here is a link to their on-line Masters http://sci.tamucc.edu/CSCI/GISC/graduate/graduate.html
Good info to know and appreciate the honest answers.
Jimmy Cleveland, post: 410759, member: 91 wrote: Is the Texas A&M Master's an online program?
Candidates for the certificate are required to complete 32 credit hours of surveying related courses; 20 of these credit hours must be taken at Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi. TA&M has online courses, but I am unsure of the total online credit count.
Paul in PA
Thanks Paul and Mike. I am just starting the BAS at Great Basin, with about 20 classes to take for my degree. I figure 5 years at two classes a semester. Not in a big hurry. I'll see how I feel after I finish this one.
Brian McEachern, post: 410739, member: 9299 wrote: There are several universities out there, U of F being one of them that offer a Geomatics Certificate. The credits from these certification courses can eventually be used toward a full degree if the student takes the program that far. I am curious as to all of your professional opinions on an employee with a university certificate, as opposed to CST program put on by the NSPS. From what I have read many of the people on here somewhat disregard the CST program. Any education could be seen as a step in the right direction, but how fruitful could the certification be?
Once upon a time I worked for an employer in Palm Beach County that would give you an hourly raise for each level of the CST exam you passed. I have taken and passed all 3 of the level 3 exams. As Lee said, they are no joke. I know of a few people that took a CST exam before taking their PLS exam as a way of getting back into the test taking mode. There was also an apprenticeship program in Palm Beach and Broward Counties at one point around 2008? that I was involved in for a bit. I am not sure if it is still around or not. I am not sure what your education back ground is, but why not take some classes at Palm Beach State College and then go to FAU? They have a survey program now. I followed this approach while working full time and starting a family. It took me a while, but I graduated in 2007 with a degree in Geography (GIS). No matter what your degree is in, it is something that you will always have.
Are you or your employer active in the Palm Beach Chapter of FSMS? There are some really great people that are members. Maybe ask their opinions of the CST program as they are local to your area.
Jimmy Cleveland, post: 410861, member: 91 wrote: Thanks Paul and Mike. I am just starting the BAS at Great Basin, with about 20 classes to take for my degree. I figure 5 years at two classes a semester. Not in a big hurry. I'll see how I feel after I finish this one.
The problem I had in dragging this out was in the sequencing of courses. At the time I was at NJIT some courses were only every other year, miss one and you are 2 years behind. It is hard or impossible for a small program to cover every course once a year. Thankfully most courses do not have long sequence chains, most only a 1, 2 or 1, 2, 3.
I do like that Texas A&M does allow a fair number of other program courses, 12 out of 32 seems reasonable. That is 4 courses elsewhere. I had 4 survey courses at 2 different institutions before getting to NJIT.
Paul in PA
