It depends on where you currently are. Consider PA, if you have a BS CE and only 10 survey credits, you can sit for the survey exams. Some other states require just a few more survey credits if you are a CE, so getting a CE degree does not completely knock you out of the survey field. One option if you were attending Penn Sate University Wilkes-Barre campus survey program you could get an full blown surveying degree, 45 survey credits, and then go another year and get a BS CE. That puts you at both ends of the survey credit spectrum. A few states like NJ require a Surveying degree with 45 surveying credits.
I suggest continuing on a CE path, unless it gets to be too much and accumulate at least 24 credits. Quite a few states only require an associates degree with a range of 24-30 survey credits.
Paul in PA, PE, PLS
BS CE from way back when and additional 42 surveying credits along the way.
Look at regs for all states you believe that you MAY want to work in and make sure your education meets the requirements of the most rigorous state. You'll most likely want your degree (engineering or surveying or geomatics) from an ABET accredited program. I suspect that even the most rigorous?ÿ states will accept an civil degree with a certain # of core survey classes (like Paul in PA noted) - some states are fairly specific about what those classes need to cover.
Life is not likely to work out exactly as you planned it - get the education that will give you the most options - an extra year or two now may seem daunting but it's relatively minor compared to 30+ years of a career.?ÿ
Good luck
P.S. Regarding small shops - As technology advances and the cost of hardware, software, and insurance (especially software) goes up and it takes a wider variety of skills to effectively operate that hardware and software - it becomes less feasible to open a competent small shop. There may be niches that you can focus on and still do this but I suspect that in the course of your career, you'll see fewer and fewer small survey businesses.?ÿ
Thanks everyone. Lots of great advice so far.
First, at 26 yo I don't think I'm old, I just said I was "older," haha. YOU try hanging around 18 year olds all day.....ok, it's not that bad.
In terms of doing both, I could get the Civ Eng degree now and get the Surveying degree later, but I can't take many surveying credits now. This is the start of my third semester, so I basically have three years to go. The engineering curriculum is pretty full from the beginning. It looks like I have 18 elective credits open in the coming years, but if any surveying class conflicts with a class I need for the Civil degree then it gets bumped. Realistically, I'm looking at 9-12 surveying credits if I stay on the Civil track, maybe. Then, if I want to pursue the option of Surveying, it is another year or two, which isn't necessarily bad.
I also don't think I am romanticizing the field work too much. I grew up on a farm, watched my Dad have multiple back/knee/shoulder surgeries, I've been a laborer my whole life, I have some aches and pains at 26 as I've suffered tendinitis and frostbite among other inequities. Bottom line is I would rather suffer road rash and sunburn than florescent lighting and a cubicle space. Not that I can't do what I have to do, but you get the idea. In talking to surveyors, engineers, and reading the comments here, I am under the impression surveying has a little more variety day to day, on average, than engineering.?ÿ
One of the driving forces behind going to school was meeting some environmental engineers who collected soil samples and did some simple water tests and made a decent salary. They were about 50-75% travel/field, 25% office. I didn't hate where I was, but where they were looked better. Now that I'm in the program I'm exposed to engineering and I've done some job shadowing and mini-internships. It seems like the engineering jobs that interested me are more the exception than the rule. Surveying looks much more like what I envisioned, at least for the time you are doing field work. I understand that as you move up you generally get more desk time.
Dropping out isn't really an option, I'm just trying to fine tune things a little. I'm sure I will land on my feet.
Thanks for the advice again, it has been helpful.
I probably don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I'd share what I'm doing as I'm in a similar boat to you.
I'm in college right now with about 2 years left of a bachelors in Geomatics and I'm about to turn 21.?ÿ My "plan" is to get my bachelors in surveying then work on a degree in Electrical Engineering part time.?ÿ While I'm working my way through my surveying degree I am also taking all the math classes needed and will be taking Physics next year.?ÿ By the time I finish with the surveying degree I will have completed all the classes that are shared by all the engineering degrees at my university (physics, math, chemistry).?ÿ So the only classes I will need to take for my second degree will be classes specific to that field.?ÿ I may or may not choose to actually do Electrical Engineering, I might instead do civil or mechanical; however, my state (Alaska) is graduating too many people in civil and mechanical to actually get jobs in those fields in state.?ÿ?ÿ
While any of the engineerings aren't what I want to do right now, I know that in the future it will be nice to have the option to not have to work in the field or rely on getting high enough up in a company to not have to do field work frequently.?ÿ?ÿ
Originally I had just planned on doing a Associates degree in Surveying then doing engineering.?ÿ But, the state board recently changed the licensure requirements to require a four year degree and a specified set of classes, and the amount of specified classes are just 2 short of actually having the degree in surveying.
This might seem weird coming from a 20 year old but, the money doesn't matter as much as the quality of life you want to have.?ÿ Don't get me wrong, money is definitely nice.?ÿ But if you are completely miserable doing something, then it isn't worth doing.?ÿ?ÿ
I'm doing surveying because I genuinely enjoy the work, and I think that will contribute to the quality of life I want to have for the next decade or two.?ÿ But I'm also doing engineering because it does not hurt to have options later down the road for when life happens.?ÿ And I actually enjoy the math.
Life is what you make it, only you will know what is best for you.?ÿ?ÿ
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I would suggest you become a Civil Engineer, and then look for work as an engineer in the field, building roads and bridges.
With experience, you can work your way to a Project Engineer, in charge of road/ bridge construction projects.
Outside a lot, solving problems, and working out of job shacks and your truck.
From your post's I gather you may know your answer. IMHO. Screw the civil unless it is going to bring you joy. You will make plenty of money in surveying if you choose that. Maybe you want to compete with the thousands of other civil new grads coming out of school looking for a job that puts together prestandardaised widgets into a civil plan set for a standardised piece of new infrastructure or buildings. Boring to death and you may be releasing this.?ÿ I say go for the Surveying but I am a biased Surveying Grad puke. Maybe your school is the best suited for you, maybe not. I'd say check out the Schools in the pac NW if that is where you want to hang your hat. Clark College has a 2 year surveying degree that you can do while working. OIT has both Civil and Surveying and so does OSU.?ÿ Life is short, don't waste time on a direction your not into.
If the CE degree is a BS and the Survey degree is an AS, you could probably get both by spending just one extra year in school.?ÿ If you can do that, do it.?ÿ If you have to decide one or the other, first check the licensing requirements of the states you would be most likely to end up in.?ÿ For those that require a 4-yr degree, the CE degree might qualify, but a 2-yr survey degree won't.
If both degrees are 4-yr (BS), then a close look at curriculum of each will likely show that you will get more cross training in civil engineering topics with the survey degree than you would have survey content in the CE degree.?ÿ The educational trends over the past 30 or so years has been to decrease the amount of survey content in engineering degree programs to the point where most have perhaps 1 class in which students learn to run a level loop and maybe a traverse.?ÿ In other words, a watered down version of the most basic measurements class offered in a survey degree program.?ÿ Many CE degree programs have no survey content whatsoever.?ÿ The licensing boards seem to be a bit slow in catching on to that.
The colleges/universities that offer ABET accredited 4-yr survey degrees typically have enough, or nearly enough engineering content to qualify for a declared minor in civil engineering, or the rough or near equivalent of the engineering content of a 2-yr engineering degree.?ÿ The education is more diverse than an equivalent engineering degree, yet many licensing boards (at least CA) will count a CE degree as fulfilling the educational requirement for a LS license, but won't count an equivalent level survey degree toward the educational component toward the CE license.?ÿ So, at this time anyway, a 4-yr survey degree is educationally broader but professionally less flexible.
The same aspects that attracted others to surveying are what attracted me.?ÿ As a senior in HS, I was considering civil engineering among other career options but wasn't excited about any of them.?ÿ Once I was exposed to surveying, the decision was made.?ÿ There have been times since then that I've questioned that choice as engineers seem to be the lead in most multi-discipline firms and agencies, and in many such organizations, the engineers view surveying as a minor technical subset under the purview of engineering and an unfortunate necessity for much of their?ÿworkload?ÿrather than a legitimate profession.?ÿ
Historically, and perhaps in many parts of the country still, given an equal level of experience and education, engineers have tended to make more than surveyors.?ÿ But as others have stated, the recent trend is that surveyors are paid equally or in some cases better than their engineering counterparts.?ÿ The flip side is, when the economy slows, surveyors will be laid off before engineers.?ÿ The pay and job stability will often depend upon whether you are primarily a field person (or office person whose primary responsibilities are processing field data or preparing info for field crews) or project manager or higher in the corporate structure.?ÿ So if you want the equal or better pay and job stability as enjoyed by engineering counterparts, you will most often need to be one who spends most or nearly all of your time in the office.?ÿ The exception to that is that the top end (most senior and/or top producing) party chiefs will often enjoy better job security than less senior office surveyors or engineers.
I'm now in the office nearly 100% and let off the leash to run around outside once a year or so.?ÿ Even being stuck in the office, which would have driven me insane at your age, I find the type of work I do as a surveyor to be far more interesting than that I would be doing as an engineer.?ÿ Although I'd still like to be in the field a lot more often, I'd much rather do survey work in the office than engineering.?ÿ A lot of these dual license folks likely won't admit it, but they went in to surveying to alleviate the excruciatingly painful boredom of their engineering jobs and now just dabble in engineering when the surveying is slow.
Decide what aspects of a career or most important to you, money and stable employment, or doing something you find interesting and fun.?ÿ Choose accordingly.
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More advice! I will really take it to heart.
Both programs at my university are 4 year ABET accredited.?ÿ?ÿ
My civil program doesn't have a ton of room for survey stuff. Within the major I think we only have to take one survey focused class. Like I said earlier, I am not sure I could fit more than a couple into my current schedule as a Civil major. The survey program at my school goes far deeper into surveying. Probably about 40 credits of required classes focused in surveying, plus a few surveying electives that aren't required.?ÿ
While a program like construction engineering technology seems somewhat "civil engineering lite," the survey program at my school seems more like a different area of study entirely.
I have plenty of time to decide though. I can pick professors brains this semester and work in surveying this summer. If you can't tell, I'm leaning towards surveying, but I'll get my hands dirty a little first.?ÿ
I went to college pursuing a bs in ce. I worked summers on a survey crew. My last 2 years of college I contemplated switching to surveying but had enough of the ce upper division under my belt to where I decided to stick it out with the ce bs. Best decision ever. ?ÿI??ve spent most of my career surveying, but the ce degree has given me not only many great opportunities that surveying alone wouldn??t have provided. It also gave me a greater understanding of the survey product. ?ÿRecently I started working in a ?ÿplace that does only surveying. None of the highly experienced surveyors there fully understood their product??s applicability to engineering use. It was somewhat of an eye opener as to what these very good surveyors didn??t understand about their survey product. ?ÿLikewise is my time on the ce side of the fence as to how much engineers don??t understand about their survey needs. I believe I provide value as a liason between bothe fields as to project scoping and execution. ?ÿI also find knowing both helps in client relations when talking to them about project needs ?ÿ. I hsve interjected many times in meetings when a pe or ls has made statements which are lacking in underdtanding the intercomplexity of the two professions. ?ÿ
One thing also to consider.?ÿ Depending where you live or where you want to live, you may not be able to find a decent paying survey-only job.?ÿ But you may be able to find a civil job, or one where you do both, and can make a good living.?ÿ
So those who talk about living well and quality of life, may want to consider the advantages of having the CE degree.
...I am under the impression surveying has a little more variety day to day, on average, than engineering.?ÿ
I would wager more than a little actually, but I haven't worked as an engineer so I can't say for sure.?ÿ I graduated last spring and this first year of surveying has been stunning.?ÿ Time flies due to the variety.?ÿ The biggest complaint I hear from the engineers I work with is being stuck inside all the time, so even if you have variety as an engineer there seems to be the matter of cabin fever.
Anyway, I was in a similar boat as you with deciding between engineering and survey.?ÿ I picked survey for a couple reasons.?ÿ A big reason is because of health.?ÿ I have a feeling the sedentary office lifestyle is going to emerge as a major public health problem over the next 50-100 years (more so than it already is).?ÿ I'm not interested in doing back-breaking labor, but I recognize the human body is meant to move around.?ÿ I also know I'm the type of person that if I don't build exercise into whatever I'm doing everyday it's something that will just rarely happen.
The other big reason is the ability to go out and start a business.?ÿ That freedom alone more than makes up for the slight pay difference.
The dual license is an interesting prospect and I have kept that idea in the back of my mind.?ÿ Speaking for myself, I'm so irritated by the cost and way colleges/universities operate it would take me at least a few years to build up the tolerance to pay a bunch more money to sit in a classroom and listen to very knowledgeable people who have no idea how to teach.?ÿ When you're younger and don't notice this sort of thing though then yeah, maybe it's something worth grinding out.
