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Where did you go to college and would you recommend it? Did anyone select interning instead of a degree?
jitterboogie replied 2 years ago 35 Members · 56 Replies
Seeing as you are a Pennsylvanian, I would recommend the B.S. or A.S. programs at Penn State Wilkes-Barre, or the A.S. program at Penn College of Technology in Williamsport. A B.S. will give you the most options for geographic mobility, and will also open the door to jobs in federal service that will otherwise remain closed to you these days if you stick with an A.S. EDIT: You already have a Master’s degree, so this reasoning is probably not relevant.
That being said, going to the Ranger school in New York sounds more fun ????.
I graduated from Penn State Wilkes-Barre’s B.S. program 20 years ago. I don’t know much about it now. If you had a time machine, I would definitely recommend the program in its late 90s early 2000s vintage, with Chuck Ghilani at the helm. These days, I frankly have no idea of the quality.
Not an either/or for me. The AAS in geomatics in late 90s opened the door to a five plus year internship that led towards my license. That was 2006 and I??m still an intern today, just paid a lot better. The learning never ceases. When it does I??m moving on.
WillyI graduated with an Associates degree in Surveying Technology from State University of New York, Alfred NY in 1977. (yikes)
Worked for several years (upstate NY and Colorado) then went to Maine for a BS Surveying Engineering (a few years ahead of
Peter Lothian).
I have been very happy with both of those programs and feel that I had a leg up on employment opportunities because of them.
As Peter mentioned, U. Maine offers on-line programs.
SUNY Alfred now offers both AAS and BS degrees in Surveying. I do not know if they offer on-line programs
I am a junior at Vincennes University in Indiana. I have to complete the degree and internship. I would recommend the degree because surveying is a career that requires a background of memorized information that is easier to learn in school than just in internship. I work full time and go to school. I get the best of both worlds. Half of my internship can be done during school.
I just finished up a 2 year associates in Land Surveying and Geomatics from Western Colorado Community College last spring. All the survey courses had online options and the other courses were offered through a joint venture with Colorado Mesa University. It was a very affordable option as a CO resident. Being the only degree program offered in Colorado it was an easy choice. However, I would’ve preferred getting a 4-year degree at the same relative price.
@frozennorth Penn College has shuttered their survey program. PSU WB’s program is a mere shadow of its former self. The intern program manager there is trying his best to hold it together but I suspect we are witnessing the death what was one of the best programs around. What Dr. Ghilani had built was GREAT, but since the departure of him and a few others, as well as what appears to be a lack of support from the University, the program is sliding.
@sreeserinpa Man. Sad to hear that, for both programs.
- Posted by: @eagle1215
I am a junior at Vincennes University in Indiana. I have to complete the degree and internship. I would recommend the degree because surveying is a career that requires a background of memorized information that is easier to learn in school than just in internship. I work full time and go to school. I get the best of both worlds. Half of my internship can be done during school.
@eagle1215 do they still have you take the CST 1 & 2 exams? We did after our first and second years. I thought the VU Surveying curriculum was amazing back in the late 90’s. We didn’t have half of what you have available now! I’m jealous as can be.
I had been an apprenticed surveyor, licensed in 1989, began regular CE programs in 1986 (by choice) when I enrolled in MSUD Denver in 1995 and took one night class at a time as a survey degree major – math minor until the school dropped the program, about 3 classes short of a degree. I have enough credits to qualify for the existing PLS exam today.
My opinion is;
– surveying can’t be learned from a book.
– I had many very poor mentors, and there really is no mentoring today.
– I cherish the deep fundamentals I was taught in formal settings. I didn’t go to college to learn button pushing. I started on a transit and learned button pushing in the field like everyone else.
The learning continues, it doesn’t end when you get your license.
–
@warrenward
Go RoadRunners!
- Posted by: @warrenward
My opinion is;
– surveying can’t be learned from a book.
– I had many very poor mentors, and there really is no mentoring today.
– I cherish the deep fundamentals I was taught in formal settings. I didn’t go to college to learn button pushing. I started on a transit and learned button pushing in the field like everyone else.
The learning continues, it doesn’t end when you get your license.
I would agree with this take.
I did my education sort of backward: started as an entry-level rodman with no idea what surveying was, worked my way through the field and office positions, started the licensure process, and then went back for my four-year degree. Best decision I ever made, especially because I was able to work and go to school at the same time.
Knowing the fundamentals, even the basic science, behind the gear we use, and the “why” behind our workflows will make you a far better surveyor and a more efficient problem-solver. Learning the fundamentals of boundary law, case law and practical boundary analysis in a formal setting will give you a much more well-rounded view of our quasi-legal role.
For me, the education piece was critical because so many surveyors have an extremely narrow view of their own little slice of practice. Learning the fundamentals allows one to see the common elements across the various types of work we do and offers more perspective. I had a lot of mentors who had done the exact same thing for decades and had no interest in teaching me why they did things a particular way, because they didn’t know why they did it that way in the first place – they were taught that way so “it must be the only way“.
It also helps you attain the knowledge and ability to adapt when needed, which something a lot of surveyors struggle with precisely because they don’t have that deep foundational understanding that allows them to see the bigger picture and modify procedures or take a different approach to help a project run more smoothly or beat out the competition.
The formal education also helps you advance other survey-related skills (GIS, photogrammetry, laser scanning, UAS, etc.) far more easily – or at the very least lets you talk to other geospatial practitioners on their own level so you can collaborate on some of the really interesting projects out there.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman Preach it Brother Rover!
Similar and much later path for me, I was in computers and decided I wanted a better life, ha. The field knowledge I’ve been gaining from the old salts and curmudgeons has been invaluable when discussion about the concepts in a classroom setting came up.
Similar but not quite this way…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM
Oh, my, that is good!
Reminded me of my experience in a three-credit course in Principals of Real Estate as a step to obtaining my real estate salesperson license. I had to make a point to keep my trap shut or we would have never made it through all of the standard lecture time. The college instructor would sometimes turn to me and ask for some examples or clarification relative to whatever point he had been covering. That was fun. I had conducted surveys for several of his family members, including the tract where he grew up. Later, I did a survey for him on one of his investment properties.
Ryerson University, Civil Engineering with a Geomatics option. It would allow graduates to pursue being a P.Eng and an OLS. Course break down was the following:
1rst year: common civil engineering courses, 6 courses per semester
2nd – 4rth year: minimum number of courses PEO would allow a P.Eng designation plus all available geomatics courses. It worked out to 7 courses per semester. You were still, technically, short of all the required AOLS courses.
York University (additional required courses beyond university Bachelor of Engineering for articling process)
Survey Law II
Bathymetric courses could be taken at BCIT or UNB.
The head of Ryerson University was a civil engineering prof. He felt that the geomatics program “stole” funds from civil engineering and when budget allocation came up, the geomatics department got canned. Same thing happened at Erindale, University of Toronto about 20 years earlier. York University is, last I checked, the only Ontario option. Some of the profs transferred there, others went to other universities and their GIS departments.
As you are likely an American, I doubt my option would apply even if the course was still available. That being said, I know of 2 fellow students from my years who moved to the American SW and I believe both of them became licensed. One was originally from Michigan if that matters. I am unaware of the extra hoops they had to jump through as their education was Canadian.
It was a great program. It was still deficient in that experience, IMO, is also required (ie. interning). I also did the following:
-worked for a layout crew for mass earth movers in high school
-was a university prof research assistant for MTO and other research grants
-worked for the City of Toronto’s Construction Services Department during summer semesters
-worked for an old Italian OLS before I went back to finish my schooling after “finding” myself
-worked for a number of survey managers, coast to coast, each imparting knowledge I could never get from a book
Both education and the “school of hard knocks” are equally important, IMO. Choose wisely for both (ie. choose a school with a good program and try to find employment with a firm that will help develop the skills you learned academically).
A good start for the business side is Beardslee’s book. Key word is “start.”
P
- Posted by: @eagle1215
@jflamm They don’t have the CST exams. I don’t know what they are. The program is the only one in the state. The professor, Jessica Hess, is great. The program is mostly online because I work for a surveyor.
The CST exam is the Certified Survey Technician program that was put on by the ACSM/NSPS. There’s 5 levels. Passing the level 1 was a requirement for our first year and the level 2 was required the second year. We didn’t have the 4 year option back then. That CST program still goes today and is a great option for people that don’t want to or can’t go the PLS route.
I was going to reach out to Jessica a couple of years ago and see if she’d be interested in having me come talk to the class. Then covid hit. I know I would have appreciated hearing from someone about their experiences other than a local surveyor. The online stuff has gained a lot of steam since then so I don’t how many actually attend class now. R. Swingley was in my class and I saw that he was teaching some there too. I may get in touch with him.
The hands on aspect is what I loved about that program. I was totally green coming in. I didn’t know what a level or total station was my first day of class. The first day we went out and learned how to throw a 100′ steel tape. Good times!
@jflamm The only professor at VU is Jessica. VU is the only college in Indiana that has surveying. I was going to Purdue and they dropped the program just as I started. I switched schools during Christmas break. I am only able to do the online program because I work for a surveyor. My classes do have labs that I complete with my boss. Some of the classes I drive to Indianapolis to the satilite campus for labs. I go 4 or 5 times a semester. It is nice not living on campus. Jessica has not mentioned anything about the CST.
I was required to have the CST2 OF for my last job, and it does make a difference. Not easy either. And definitely doable by working field people willing to go after the goal.
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