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That first step might be a doozy
Well, my first job as a “professional” (using that term loosely) was boundary work on a regular sized suburban lot in a middle class neighborhood. A young Jewish Rabbi, with a couple of fun little boys and nice wife, runs synagogue on a covered slab in his back yard and wants a little more space back there.
I did topo for him a year+ ago and now he wanted to clearly delineate his boundary so that a contractor can start making a mess for a Hawaiian style rock retaining wall that will face two neighbors properties from 2′ to 8+’ high.
I got a hint before going but found out more in my day in the brush there that at least one of the neighbors is starting to take issue with the idea. At first it was that he thinks some of the trees the Rabbi wants to take down are on his property – something fairly easy to determine. But after a couple hours out there the neighbor came out and we talked. I’m pretty good at playing dumb (lots of experience) so it was a nice conversation, but found that besides the trees, his real concern is that an 8′ high rock wall running most of the length of the long side of his property will turn his back yard into “an oven”.
Not much I can determine on that, but it’s possible the neighbor tries to find something to stall or stop it and he does actually believe that probably 8 trees, on the rabbi’s side of a nice, coated chain link fence (and are IMO clearly on the rabbi’s property), are his… so he may use that to begin the stall.
I told the Rabbi that it sounded like the neighbor may be inclined to get his own “real experienced” surveyor to test his theory. But the whole thing certainly made me be careful and do what I consider a rigorous survey, wondering if I might have to defend it at some point.
“uh, yeah judge, I mean yer onner, I’ve never actually marked real boundaries before.” <I have, many times, but I can’t tell that to anyone>
Fun way to start (sarcasm slathered on there).
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21 Replies
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The Rabbi mention drew me in. My office is in a predominately Jewish town/city that is exploding with growth and spreading out into surrounding areas where the Gentiles are not happy. Just about every neighborhood has their own synagogue and most their own private schools.
I field objections from the adjoiners quite often and retaining walls are quite common in the area but this is the first time that I’ve heard of somebody saying that the wall will make the back yard an oven. I’ve heard all kinds of other crazy objections but this one is creative at best.
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Ask the Rabbi to send the neighbor some Chicken Soup. That should reslove everything.
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It’s just been my experience that people don’t generally spring for a survey of their property line because they get along so spectacularly with their neighbor. I’m not even going to touch the ‘an oven’ comment given the history there. Hopefully it wasn’t intended as anti semitic.
Willy -
Some people clearly have too much idle time on their hands. Most have spent their working life as sheeple, following the expectations of those above them. Suddenly, other than their spouse, there are no “above” people to guide them daily. Thus, they must seek out little projects of their own. This frequently turns into “advising” everyone they meet on how to do something better.
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Somewhere recently I saw a story about a large, architecturally-designed building that had to be retrofitted after the curved glass facade or windows was quite literally cooking the neighborhood.
Made me think of the buildings that had thin marble slabs serving as the veneer for the structure. The adhesives holding the panels in place did not do the job correctly, resulting in huge panels soaring off the building and into/onto vehicles, people, etc.
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The Rabbi mention drew me in. My office is in a predominately Jewish town/city that is exploding with growth and spreading out into surrounding areas where the Gentiles are not happy. Just about every neighborhood has their own synagogue and most their own private schools.
I field objections from the adjoiners quite often and retaining walls are quite common in the area but this is the first time that I’ve heard of somebody saying that the wall will make the back yard an oven. I’ve heard all kinds of other crazy objections but this one is creative at best.
I’m sorry to hear that communities are still dividing themselves by religion, too. Not having lived in a Jewish community, I’d assume that Jewish people are generally “good”, which is at least as good or better than most mixed world view communities (?) idk – it just sucks that people still have prejudice toward that, too. Don’t we have enough to hate? (Most of our politicians come to mind).
This neighbor was generally nice, too – of course he knew I have no dog in the yard – but his “fear” is that instead of his nice 54″ rubber coated chainlink doggy fence, he’ll now have an 8′ high vertical rock wall that faces both downslope and westward. Thinking the evening sun will bake his guava and sour sop (maybe his doggies). idk – I’d just prefer not be involved. We shared some common personal info in the conversation and I get an email from him this morning:
“<niceties> <some other random pleasant statement>
When I left my home to go to work, I saw you were still working. I also saw some markers near my dog fence and wondered what they mean. I see the flags are blue on wooden stakes and there was a marking whisker next to the blue flagged wooden stakes.
Thank you for what information you are able to provide.“I’m thinking the info I’m able to provide might be something like:“<an unusually nice observation as to how sweet his doggies are and…>Question: Your moo-moo dogface in the banana patch?”See how that flies.
dd -
Hopefully it wasn’t intended as anti semitic.
That didn’t even cross my mind (what’s the matter with you!?) and I’m sure not the neighbors’ either. He was very Hawaiian.
dd -
@dave-o It’s all good man. Being of part Jewish heritage, that’s kind of where some people’s minds go when they hear certain words put together like that. Carry on.
Willy -
@williwaw I get it. I’m sure the neighbor wasn’t implying anything, but I hope he doesn’t mention it in his conversation with the Rabbi. Could be uncomfortable.
dd -
The sky is not falling when the Jewish move in. The problem is that Christians are not aware of their faith and the fact that there are 13 tribes of Israel. Each has their own variations on customs ant the ultra religious are the hardest to deal with but none of them of practicing faith are disrespectful.
It’s interesting as a Christian to walk into a religious Jewish environment as a Gentile but they have always treated me well and with respect. People need to open their eyes and learn different cultures.
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I miss residential boundaries and the many hours spent listening to the histories of wonderful people. America is filled with some of the best folks you could hope to meet. It’s unfortunate that we’re more inclined to remember the less pleasant ones.
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I lived for a few years in a community that included two German groups. One group were Jewish people who had come to the area over many decades. The other group were former German soldiers of the WWII era. During the war there had been a POW camp nearby. Many of those who were released to return to Germany when the war ended came back to stay, bringing their families with them.
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So you all certainly have years of dealing with this stuff, but I thought I’d throw this out for anyone interested. The neighbor wrote me that night with pleasantries about the time I took away to talk with him. Of the 20 minutes I spent, at least 15 were about life and about 5 of me playing (?) dumb.
I wrote him back. Yesterday morning he writes:
“When I left my home to go to work, I saw you were still working. I also saw some markers near my dog fence and wondered what they mean. I see the flags are blue on wooden stakes and there was a marking whisker next to the blue flagged wooden stakes.
Thank you for what information you are able to provide.”I thought about it for a day, going back and forth between not responding at all or, if I did, how could I reply in kind but with truth.I replied:“Regarding your question, ethically I can’t comment. Not because of any conspiracy or contractual requirement, but honestly because even if Xxxx had told me his intentions (which he hasn’t) anything I said about it would truly be hearsay and could very easily cause just as much confusion as understanding. I don’t know him at all, but with me he’s certainly been reasonable and open to discussion. He’d be the only one to be able to tell anyone with any certainty what he’s planning, if anything.Bless you, brother. I hope we meet again.Dave”Am I naively putting myself into a warming pot?
dd -
I lived for a few years in a community that included two German groups. One group were Jewish people who had come to the area over many decades. The other group were former German soldiers of the WWII era. During the war there had been a POW camp nearby. Many of those who were released to return to Germany when the war ended came back to stay, bringing their families with them.
Man, that’s quite a situation. Did they associate?
dd -
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will! -
Yes, they did. One of my co-workers was a native Michigander who fought in the Army during WWII. One of our mutual friends in a Toastmasters Club was one of the former POW German soldiers who returned to the area. A few of my co-workers were Jewish. One died while I was working there, so I attended her funeral for some cross-cultural experience.
The caretakers for our apartment complex were Dutch citizens who immigrated as a young couple shortly after the end of WWII.
The one thing I never got used to was calling in a reservation to a restaurant and then being told that I was not listed when I arrived. Had to tell them to look in the C area instead of the K area of their list.
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Yes, they did. One of my co-workers was a native Michigander who fought in the Army during WWII. One of our mutual friends in a Toastmasters Club was one of the former POW German soldiers who returned to the area. A few of my co-workers were Jewish. One died while I was working there, so I attended her funeral for some cross-cultural experience.
The caretakers for our apartment complex were Dutch citizens who immigrated as a young couple shortly after the end of WWII.
The one thing I never got used to was calling in a reservation to a restaurant and then being told that I was not listed when I arrived. Had to tell them to look in the C area instead of the K area of their list.
That’s beautiful. We still have goodness here. And about the mistaken spelling, totally understandable. Being of German descent myself, I’d always assumed that your online name was a pseudonym and that your real name was likely Wholly Kau.
dd -
I always take the position that I’m helping everyone in the neighborhood when I do a boundary. At least it makes me feel better.
The last contentious one I did worked out that way, even the guy who was “pissed” came into the office happy as could be and paid his half a couple of days after I sent the bill out. I only heard from the lawyers that he was upset, he clearly never was.
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Am I naively putting myself into a warming pot?
My policy is to stay out of it. Keeping the mouth shut is a hard thing for me, but necessary. Polite pleasantries are fine.
Direct questions I typically deflect. “Who knows what will happen? People often get surveys and do nothing.” Something like that.
If they do not take the hint I say something close to this: “If you were my client, would you want me to discuss your ideas with your neighbors? In my experience, it is best when neighbors talk to each other.”
I also try to limit the gossip and bad blood I am given. Set boundaries, demand respect. Respect is more important than a client or an adjoined “liking you”. Over time, people will like people they respect. They may not respect people they like…and that like can flip on a dime (literally).
-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
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