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Sometimes you are simply better than the other guy….
shelby-h-griggs-pls replied 5 years, 10 months ago 26 Members · 46 Replies
I would think that this issue would need to be brought up with the surveyor. And, if they are not responsive, then a board complaint should be filed. This is unacceptable as a professional and makes our profession look bad.
File a complaint.
Just wondering if the guilty surveyor gave his client a bulk discount for setting multiple corners.
WillyI held both of them. HAHAHA
I held both of them. HAHAHA
Did you set your own capped iron if so then the other Surveyor has an 80% chance of being correct, you only have a 20% chance of being right.
In 2019 we hope to see a new rule to help with this.
If you cannot resolve a material discrepancy you will be required to notify the owner and the Board. They wont decide the corner but they will be talking with the Surveyors. This stuff just makes us look stupid. Most of the time it’s just an unwillingness to talk AND listen.
- Posted by: thebionicman
In 2019 we hope to see a new rule to help with this.
If you cannot resolve a material discrepancy you will be required to notify the owner and the Board. They wont decide the corner but they will be talking with the Surveyors. This stuff just makes us look stupid. Most of the time it’s just an unwillingness to talk AND listen.
Who is the “we” you are talking about? Some of my best clients are the sub standard Surveyors in my area.
All 50 states already have rules on how to solve a boundary, they just need to enforce the rules already in place, not make rules on top of rules.
Idaho. There is currently an issue with pin farms. It happens everywhere and I am unaware of any enforcable law or rule that says cut it out. What is there to enforce that will stop the practice?
- Posted by: thebionicman
Idaho. There is currently an issue with pin farms. It happens everywhere and I am unaware of any enforcable law or rule that says cut it out. What is there to enforce that will stop the practice?
I’m conflicted on this. It’s a shame that the profession would need such an explicit rule, but it seems to be the case.
Current regulations about professionalism could probably be enforced to stop pin farming, but it would be a pretty big hurdle. Between regulation and case law, I think most states have a pretty well established hierarchy of evidence, and the pin farmers ignore this non-stop by ignoring physical evidence in favor of measurements.
- Posted by: thebionicman
Idaho. There is currently an issue with pin farms. It happens everywhere and I am unaware of any enforcable law or rule that says cut it out. What is there to enforce that will stop the practice?
I am sure the Idaho Survey Board has rules and procedures about finding and setting corners, also I am sure they are State court cases as well. What is a new rule where the Board calls the Survey to talk to him about a pin farm going to solve, If I was the Surveying getting that phone call I would just tell the Board well I am surveying in Idaho and, no one here knows how to Survey so I had to set the corner in the correct place, go call the other 2 Surveyors who didn’t know where the property corner should go.
I know plenty of Surveyors that will never pull someone else’s corner, because they don’t know if it was set as a reference, or might be an easement corner etc.. Then I heard of some that will pull every corner that doesnt agree with their boundary.
The main issue I see is two pins by the same LS set for the same corner. To me, that is negligence and is not protecting the public in any fashion. If you made a mistake, and need to reset your corner, then pull the other one. All this does is make our profession look bad. File a complaint with the board. I’m sure the board will not be happy with this situation.
There are no rules or laws that specifically prevent or prohibit pin farms. The intent of the new rule is to get the Surveyors to talk before throwing the neighborhood in turmoil. If considering each others logic and evidence doesnt eliminate ambiguity the owners need to be involved as they are the ones who ultimately resolve true ambiguities.
The Board is getting involved to ensure these communications occur. They won’t be picking sides but will be making sure a genuine attempt at resolution happens. That beats the heck out of having the math slapped on the ground and recorded with no consideration for the damage done.
Hypothetical scenario:
Measurements and end of old suggests corner should be at A. Deteriorating iron pipe is found a foot away at B. After looking at ground and talking to all abutters, no indication that anyone relied on the pipe, and lots of indications they are relying on the fence. A resurvey is found at the town clerk’s office that has 2 digits in the distance transposed, and the pipe is consistent with the transposed distance. The surveyor who performed the resurvey has passed on.
So do you just leave the deteriorating pipe and set a new monument at A. Or do you set a correct monument at A and also set a new monument at B to perpetuate the erroneous monument, and show it as rejected in your plat?
If you reject the old pipe and the owners and surveyors of record (if any) agree it is resolved. In that case the Board won’t be notified.
At that point a new map would be filed memorializing the issue. The next guy wouldnt have to repeat the exercise.
What if in Idaho the homeowner is building a fence pulls the corner, and puts it back where he thought he removed it, but he is 2 tenths off, will the board be calling homeowner as well? Can the Surveyor set the corner in the correct location? With the new proposed Idaho no pin farm rule does that corner off 2 tenths now become the corner?
Are they anymore proposed Idaho we know you are a Professional, but lets me some rules where we take away your professional judgement, like which color flagging to use, what lathes height can be used, and you can only turn right angles, because we don’t know how to do follow the guy who turned left angles.
You are ignoring the entire thread. The policy deals with UNRESOLVED pin farms.
I would love to see our Profession governed by standard of care only. Unfortunately you have to have policy in place for those who refuse to do good work. If those policies interfere with folks doing a professional job they need to go away or be amended.
I have worked for and against rules based on points made on this board before and likely will again. Show me a downside that fits the proposal and I will listen.
To me it seems the Idaho board is trying to make a rule that is unnecessary, and how is just calling the Surveyor going to fix anything, if he set a pin farm then all is going to say is the other Surveyors are wrong, its just going to be 3 Surveyors saying the other 2 are wrong and everyone’s time is going to be wasted. Without any fines attached to the new rule no one is going to follow it.
Idaho needs to get to the root of the cause, which from all the pin farms in the State, is to have a higher standard on who gets a Survey License, make the requirements or the test harder.
I found a pin farm about a year ago it was 3 iron rods, 1 was capped. The one in the middle was correct. I called the Surveyor who capped the iron, he said I am so happy he is your client now, and not mine, he thought the guy moved his rod, said no other corners were there when he set it so I pulled that corner. I didn’t call the other Surveyor because, I knew it was wrong and I pulled that corner as well, and left the middle one which was uncapped, not sure who set it. I didnt need another state rule telling me how to Survey or to fix a boundary problem.
The downside is if Idaho keeps making a rule to cover every Professional judgement call that a Professional should know how to make, might as well change it from Idaho Professional License Surveyor, to Idaho License rule book reader Surveyor, or just Technician.
And again you didnt read anything. UNRESOLVED. If you came to a solution its done. Thats the point…
No I read it all, there are some Surveyors who think they are right no matter what, what is going to happen when 2 of them set corners next to each other? How is a phone call from the board going to help?
Cheap help, lazy Party Chief. ?
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