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Quite a few years ago I was involved in a project to replace/increase size of a water pipeline that was inside of a carrier CMP pipe under a highway fill. We surveyed the 72″ carrier pipe (wasn’t easy with the existing water pipe in the way) every 5′ in 4 locations around the circumference (had a special rod made to go around the water pipe to get to the FL of the carrier pipe) plus all apparent bulges and seams. It had been squashed and deformed over the many years of loading.
Our engineers designed the largest diameter pipe they could fit through the smallest circular opening, using what was the equivalent of a virtual Hula Hoop. Fortunately, the contactor we had on board did the same with the 3D survey data, except they used a virtual 20′ long tube to assess how big of a pipe would fit. Shrank the OD by something like 2″. It was caught before the pipe was ordered. They only had a 4 day outage planned to remove the old and install the new. Would have been a mess if they ripped out the old, then discovered the pipes wouldn’t fit. I think the contractor got a bit of a “thank you” bonus for that.
This was the rough alignment. As I recall, it was about 900′ long.
try a 2 lane wide roundabout with 4 roads (2 4-lanes, 2 2-lane w 1 to a National Park) coming in, a 50′ radius and 7% slope in and out for the 4-lanes? Was 35mph road, then 25mph and likely will be throttled down to 5mph and traffic jams before long.
and pedestrian access to the national park
and to accommodate truck traffic
20 years ago the busiest intersection on St. John had to go. Trucks all had to back up to get through it. The Fed. Highway Engineers held meetings and took a vote- roundabout or the island??s first traffic light. I voted for the light, the circle would be too small and it was on a hillside. But the roundabout won. It??s really a success. I did all the mapping and layout.
The one around the Arc de Triomphe (sp) is always exciting.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwPWGUhEtP0
People come out of the sky and they stand there
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!- Posted by: @holy-cow
Driver’s education is offered through most high schools and is a big money maker for private firms.
Not in this neck of the woods. Schools dropped it decades ago. You are correct about the private firms though. But it is not required anymore to receive a driver’s license.
@dougie That is probably my wife’s favorite song. When the first three notes are played she stops to listen. Yes was the first concert we saw after our wedding in 1977. Thanks.
Andy
I had never known that some locations required it in order to obtain a driver’s license. I took it because my parent’s auto insurance would go up less when they added me as a driver. My youngest daughter got her first license on her 14th birthday, then took driver’s ed the following Summer.
@dave-karoly Have you seen the one there building on Hwy. 88 west of Ione. Looks to be the same size as the one in Plymouth with a lot more truck traffic.
@acd-surveyor no I haven??t been over there in a while.
@holy-cow The schools don’t teach drivers ed in my area, they leave that to the private businesses. They don’t teach about roundabouts in driver’s ed either. My son said they spent like 5 minutes discussing right of way at a roundabout, that’s it.
@wa-id-surveyor
Interesting how things differ from place to place. We spend all Summer looking out for the vehicles with the STUDENT DRIVER warning signs on them because so many of our schools schedule DE classes then. The one private firm of which I am aware is based nearly 50 miles from my house. They are busy year around with adults who need the training.
A friend of mine took a job right out of college in the heart of downtown Chicago, close to the Wrigley Building. We are talking 1974. It cost him more to find a place to keep his car than it did to rent his efficiency apartment. He found the only time he used his car was when he would drive the nearly 900 miles one-way to visit his family in southwest Kansas. It was cheaper to sell his car and fly to Wichita and rent a car. I can understand how people who grow up in areas of mass transit are absolutely lost when they come to locations where you MUST be able to get around entirely on your own, every day of the year.
The thing in Loyal??s photo is a traffic circle and the one in Paris France in the video above is a traffic circle. Traffic circles have 90?ø intersections which make them more dangerous.
The Garces Memorial Circle in Bakersfield, California is a traffic circle I had to navigate in driver training.
@acd-surveyor this one is on route 190 east of Porterville:
Route 1 at Simpson Lane south of Fort Bragg:
I found a pdf from the US Department of Transportation. Like some other things I found on the web, it mentions two key factors in the introduction (p. 2) that distinguish a traffic circle from a roundabout:
- The traffic entering the roundabout always has a yield sign; in a traffic circle, anything is possible: yield sign, traffic light, stop sign for traffic already in the circle.
- The circles are smaller for a roundabout, which encourages slower speeds.
@dougie
Geoff Downes, the organist for “Yes” was also the creator of the rock group “The Buggles” which wrote one of my favorite songs ever. Only us really old farts will truly understand the lyrics. ???? Geoff @ 3:15 is solo.
@jph I did layout and asbuilts on one similar to what you describe in Gloucester county, NJ. That concrete center did not last even a year with all of the loaded trailers running over it.
I own a home in the largest town (areawise) in the largest county in NJ. Half the town’s area is State Forest, other parts of town are restricted from development for environmental reasons, leaving the town’s population at roughly 6,250 people. We have no street lights, two blinking lights and several 4 way stop intersections.
One intersection of two County roads has a ton of seriouse accidents, it’s a pretty generic intersection with a slight slant and good site triangles, one road is a through road, the other has stop signs with blinking red lights, warning signs on the approach and rumble strips in the pavement. With all those protections, people, for some reason blow the stop signs and some nasty accidents happen. The intersection is is a remote area of farmlands and I’ve never had an issue or even close call navigating through it in either direction since I started driving.
Since the County owns and maintains both roads their solution to the problem is installing a roundabout (we call them circles in NJ at a cost of $4 million tax payer dollars after land aquisions and the like to install a circle in the middle of nowhere on roads with daily traffic counts that don’t even approach moderate. Many of the farms, varieing in the hundreds of acres, sell their produce to Campbells Soup and at harvest time the volume of truck traffice through that intersection is heavy, but theyhave never caused accidents. The circle will be oblittered and solve no problems, it just amazes me that they are going to waste that much money to not solve the problem. As the State is removing the old ones out of concerns for safety, the counties are increasingly putting them in.
While working for a State DOT, I don’t know how many times I sat in meetings and asked WHY does this need to be done? Always got the same answer that that’s what the study says we need to do. One of these “studies” was that a mini roundabout was needed where it was already a 4 way stop with no accidents, just people thinking they were delayed getting home. I suggested a signal, but of course the almighty engineers knew better – after all the design and figuring what the ROW needs would cost – guess what’s there now. It’s been my experience that the State Engineers are the most belligerent towards peopel like me who didn’t go to those same colleges they did.
- Posted by: @richard-germiller
While working for a State DOT… asked WHY does this need to be done?
what did the study reveal? was it cheaper, safer? and who gives a rat’s ____ about a “study”? Anyone can do one, and anyone can come up with whatever they like. (see all the crap we constantly hear about COVID that contradicts the last thing)
-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
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