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RADU,
“A professional upholds standards of practice and ethics in their chosen vocation.”
I prefer over-achievers and line-crossers and rule breakers and trend-buckers. I’ve got no use for the seat-warmer who plays by the rules and follows orders. A Professional makes his own standards and defines himself.
Dave
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> RADU,
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> “A professional upholds standards of practice and ethics in their chosen vocation.”
>
> I prefer over-achievers and line-crossers and rule breakers and trend-buckers. I’ve got no use for the seat-warmer who plays by the rules and follows orders. A Professional makes his own standards and defines himself.
>
> DaveDave I have for countless years now been a fiercely independent, innovative and trend maker who sets own high standards to define self, but all done upholding the standards of practice and ethics.
RADU
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> > RADU,
> >
> > “A professional upholds standards of practice and ethics in their chosen vocation.”
> >
> > I prefer over-achievers and line-crossers and rule breakers and trend-buckers. I’ve got no use for the seat-warmer who plays by the rules and follows orders. A Professional makes his own standards and defines himself.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Dave I have for countless years now been a fiercely independent, innovative and trend maker who sets own high standards to define self, but all done upholding the standards of practice and ethics.
>
> RADU:good: :good:
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> Interestingly, when I was an instrument operator about a decade ago, if some construction boss came on the job wanting to talk to The Surveyor, he’d walk over to me, because I was standing next to the total station, punching buttons on the data collector. I would refer him to the hub-pounding Rod Man, who was my Party Chief and a PLS. I always enjoyed the quizzical look that got.[/size]
>Have had same experience. Plus age has an effect on peoples stereotypes. I was a 26 year old crew chief with a 40 year old instrument man. The clients would always walk up to him first. Even if we were still in the truck. 😀
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Heck No, On The Other Side Of That Line
I have met several PhDs in Surveying, all are professors or connected to NGS.
I do not think that level of education is amenable to running a for profit field surveying company.
Beyond an MS the education does not improve the skill of any for profit work.
Consider the grunt work a field crew does?
Then think about research work done by PhDs. The grunt work for them is done by graduate students for it to be useful at a higher level.
For an individual to be truly happy at a job they want their work to intellectually challenge their education. Otherwise you are just digging a ditch.
Since the contrary may also be shown, there surveyors with a JD who are very happy to be carrying a shovel. While what they do is a historical challenge it is not a technical challenge.
Paul in PA
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My suit makes me a professional?
My vest, hard hat and steel toe boots makes me a tradesman?
I’m licensed in my state and I have to work both field and office.
Act like a professional and be treated like one.SD
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SDV,
“My suit makes me a professional?”
Only if it’s a really nice one, like an Armani.
I’m talking perceptions of worth here. A perception is an opinion, and like all opinions, can have worth or be worthless.
Perception is THE reason why we jump through hoops of education and licenses, dress “appropriate” to our job, and make an effort to increase our skills.
I’d still like to know, if it’s at all knowable, what is THE distinction between a profession and a trade.
Dave
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GETTING PAID FOR WHAT YOU DO, you are a TRADESMAN.
– following plans to assemble a steel building.
– following plans to place sewer lines.
– marking a property line from the data the PLS put in the DC.GETTING PAID FOR WHAT YOU KNOW, you are a PROFESSIONAL.
– designed the steel building.
– designed the sewer system.
– researched, computed, understand boundary law and all else that goes into knowing where to have the crew mark the property line.I, as most of us am both. This could be why it is so hard to define and why peoples opinions vary. Most professional in other fields do not do such a varied scope of tasks.
I have told clients that wine about the cost of their boundary survey, “You are paying me for what I KNOW, not what I DO”.Scott
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A Profession provides the client with the knowledge and information to make an an educated decision. A doctor diagnosing a disease and recommending treatment options, a lawyer recommending how to defend a lawsuit, or a surveyor giving options on how to proceed with the subdivision of a property.
A Trade provides the client with a skill to create or repair a physical object. The plumber repairing the water line, a roofer installing a new roof, or the auto mechanic repairing a car.
Many occupations have a blend of both Profession and Trade. A auto mechanic will explain your options to repair your car (professional, then use his skill to do the repair(trade). A doctor diagnoses your ailment (professional), you decide the course of treatment, the surgeon uses his skill to perform surgery (trade).
PLS NJ & NY, PP NJ -
My licenses were issued by the State Board of Technical Professions. That is a good start to being able to claim the title “professional”. How one behaves is what keeps one recognized as a “professional”.
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Scott,
Interesting distinction between profession and trade. Your answer is well thought out.
Dave
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Dan,
The difference between selling a skill and selling knowledge. I like that. Good answer.
Dave
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This post about professionals reminds me of all the seventies bands that started to suck because they were more busy sitting then playing.
A professional is a courteous individual that gets it done on time and budget (re-adjusted or not) and keep the BS to a minimum. Doesn’t matter how many sardines one has on its shirt.
A professional can be anyone from any ranks. A professional is very easy to notice.
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> This post about professionals reminds me of all the seventies bands that started to suck because they were more busy sitting then playing.
>
> A professional is a courteous individual that gets it done on time and budget (re-adjusted or not) and keep the BS to a minimum. Doesn’t matter how many sardines one has on its shirt.
>
> A professional can be anyone from any ranks. A professional is very easy to notice.I kinda agree with that. Professionalism is a state of mind and an attitude. I know of a few guys I’ve met who run around with a Seal that I wouldn’t pay apprentice rate. Then there are those who wake up every morning with the right outlook and skill set and I have a hard time trying not to overpay them, license or not. A true professional emanates an aura that is noticeable by everyone (Client, subordinate and boss). I’ve watched guys clean toilets and walked away impressed by their methodologies and demeanor, that made them professional to me. It starts with personal pride and most Professionals I know, make those around them better just by their words and actions.
Ralph
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> SDV,
>
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> I’d still like to know, if it’s at all knowable, what is THE distinction between a profession and a trade.
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> DaveThere is no decisive line between the two, but there certainly are predominating characteristics to each.
To qualify as a profession there must be a mental component to what you do. The mental component must have a theoretical base of principles that inform and guide the practical knowledge and skill set. The body of knowledge that is comprised of both the theoretical principles and the practical knowledge must be considerably large, and much more likely than not, be entrusted to the college or university setting.
There should be some official seal of approval issued to the practitioners of the discipline that is based upon some standardized value, be it an exam, or education, or experience, or a combination of the above. This seal of approval serves as an entry gate to the discipline.
The profession should be organized by a leadership body comprised of its own members who either administer or confer the aforementioned seal of approval for the discipline or provide strong guidance to the government body that administers it.
There are other factors, but these are probably the predominant ones.
Stephen
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> Dan,
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> The difference between selling a skill and selling knowledge. I like that. Good answer.
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> DaveI can’t agree with that answer. It has some truth to it, in that it alludes to the all-important role of knowledge that must be present to qualify as a profession. But many professions have a physical component to them, such as medical, archeology, airline pilot. There may or may not be a physical component, but there has to be a mental component.
Stephen
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> I kinda agree with that. Professionalism is a state of mind and an attitude. I know of a few guys I’ve met who run around with a Seal that I wouldn’t pay apprentice rate. Then there are those who wake up every morning with the right outlook and skill set and I have a hard time trying not to overpay them, license or not.
It starts with personal pride and most Professionals I know, make those around them better just by their words and actions.
>
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> RalphI hear you, Ralph, but that is a different meaning of the word profession.
You are right, a dog-walker can be professional, but they can’t be a professional.
Stephen
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Stephan,
“To qualify as a profession there must be a mental component to what you do.”
I can’t imagine a trade that doesn’t require thought.
“The profession should be organized by a leadership body comprised of its own members who either administer or confer the aforementioned seal of approval for the discipline or provide strong guidance to the government body that administers it.”
That’s the definition of a guild. So the distinction between a Profession and a Trade is in the seeking of advantage through exclusion of competition?
I prefer the definitions from Scott and Dan.
Dave
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> That’s the definition of a guild. So the distinction between a Profession and a Trade is in the seeking of advantage through exclusion of competition?
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> I prefer the definitions from Scott and Dan.
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> Dave[/size]Why do you assume that they aren’t seeking to protect the disparagement of both the public and the profession by excluding the unqualified?
Stephen
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