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Old Surveys
Posted by brad-ott on January 7, 2021 at 5:32 pmI have my flame-retardant suit on. Flame on!
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Happy New Year, Beer Leg Friends!I hope you are well.Do you have thoughts on this email request (see below)?Subject: Dad adviceHappy Thursday, Dad! I hope you are doing well.A lot of surveyors on beer leg dot come really hate/resist these requests for copies of 10+ year old surveys. I generally just dig ??em up and send them. Nice guy. Easier than saying no, etc.But some guys think somehow this resets the statute of limitations clock if I send it again today even though it has the old dates on it.Plus, how does this guy know ( or think he knows ) that I did a survey? Does he just have some illegible copy?Do I operate from a base of love or fear?Thanks for listening. I think I have my answer. Ha!Begin forwarded message:
Subject: Copy of past survey (13 years old)I’m needing to get a past copy of the survey for my house. My address is…Thank you for your assistance.holy-cow replied 3 years, 3 months ago 31 Members · 101 Replies- 101 Replies
____ you and and the horse you rode in on. Go to the courthouse and get a copy. Or pay them to email/fax it to you.
(Put on my flame-retardant gear, also.)
I always gave them to the original client. Somebody else it depends, if it was a good client probably.
Sadly….theres a lawyer and a courtroom out there that would likely try to resurrect the clock…..
FWIW……. FR is no go for electrical arc flash. You better cotton up and don’t sweat…… ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????
Good example why many add that note…..about warranty, limitations, valid from original date, etc. Put that on the face of the plat.
Ah, the giving away for free, of something I did many years ago, for someone else, and probably for a cheaper price than I should have, but no worries, here you go, and feel free to call and bend my ear for a half hour questioning what was done, and why, and definitely use it for construction today for that million dollar home, that you can’t afford to spend $2000 on for a new survey, and you’re probably going to call again later on when things don’t look right, and the contractor said that it’s a mistake by the surveyor….
Not sure how you deal with things like this in non-recording states. Luckily I don’t have to deal with that at all. I do occasionally get a call for a survey ‘you did back in 1995’ or something like that. If it’s the original client i can usually pull it up online and email it to them before we’re off the phone. All WA records are centrally indexed and most of the Idaho counties I work in have online research.
If it’s not the original client and I can’t located it quickly in our records I tell them to visit the courthouse or title company.
I hand out copies of my old surveys upon request, and you would be surprised at how much new work that generates. After 53 years as a registrant it has never once caused a problem for me.
@bruce-small
I agree, I tell/email the requesters to have my client authorize me to send the old map,
It’s a great way to cultivate new clients (architects) once they see the quality of my maps.
“If its the clients money… its the price … if its a referral then “don’t make me look bad”
The idea that providing a copy of a survey that you signed years ago somehow makes you liable for anyhting that has happened after the date of signature is ridiculous.
Holding a survey of a potential client’s land hostage pending payment for work that you were already paid for is….
I am very thankful for recording requirements…
My firm contractually places ownership of ALL work on a project under the ownership of the client. Curiously, we keep the original field notes, electronic data and prints, but destroy them after 7 years. I record ALL of my surveys, so there are copies retained by the County. When a past client requests copies, if we have them we provide them at no charge. When a non-client requests copies we ask the client if it is okay to release them and if they say yes, we provide copies at no charge. In the event that we have destroyed things we tell whoever is asking that we no longer have copies. In my 9-1/2 year tenure here I have only had 1 client express concern.
There is no Limit of Liability Statute in my State, but there is a 7-year record retention statute. Our State Board’s policy states that unless all information is shown on a recorded document records must be retained forever.
I have issues with several of these procedures, but have been informed that they were developed in accordance with legal counsel.
I am considering charging a $500 advance fee retainer and getting an hourly contract signed to cover research time as well as the potential time spent answering possible questions, etc.
What sort of disclaimer wording should I put in that contract to limit my liability for an old survey?
Thanks, folks.
Maybe.
The older I get and the longer I’m in this line of work, the more disgusted I get at the fact that work that we did years ago is being re-used by others, and there is liability to it.
No one else is doing things for free the way we are expected to do. And I’m sick of it, and not going to be party to.
- Posted by: @brad-ott
What sort of disclaimer wording should I put in that contract to limit my liability for an old survey?
You really don??t need one. The date on your survey relieves you from liability for any changes/improvements that may occur to the parcel subsequent the date shown. ????
@jph very true. The reuse is ridiculous. Inspectors, appraisers, lenders, title companies and realtors all get paid again
I am fortunate to work in a state that requires subdivisions to be recorded but not retracements. In my experience, hesitation to provide for free or to sell non recorded plays has nothing to do with fear of being outed for sub-par work (NC has a statute of limitations for work performed by a PLS). It’s usually a real estate agent or recent home buyer asking. The plat in question is almost always described verbatim on their deed. I feel based on my experience in my area that a real estate agent is not qualified to interpret a plat and cannot be trusted to encourage a home buyer to contract with a PLS when necessary. I just tell real estate agents to have their client contact me directly and never hear back from them.
For new home buyers, I use the opportunity to find out why they want the survey (usually a privacy fence) and encourage them to hire a surveyor. Usually they are still smarting from closing costs and don’t want to spend money so I tell them that I always provide free copies to PLSs and wish them well.
I’ve only known one PLS who charged other PLSs for copies of plats, and that was in New Hampshire, currently a recording state.
Inspectors and appraisers get paid to do the work again, just like surveyors. Title companies are in the insurance business, why would they insure someone for free? Realtors do the same amount of work to sell a property a second time as the first time. I don’t think any surveyors are resurveying property for free.
An inspection and appraisal is required for every mortgage in every state. In many states “mortgage surveys” or “plot plans” are required but a requirment for a boundary survey is very rare.
The cost of of a boundary survey is often ten times the cost of an inspection or an appraisal. Requiring a new one for every sale, even when there has been no material changes since the last one, would be a real drag on the housing market and would produce nothing of value. Unlike appraisals, boundaries generally don’t change between sales. Save our expensive services for the rare times they do change.
just this afternoon had a call from a homeowner asking if I could do his survey. Upon gathering the specifics, I found out he needs a proposed plot plan for the building inspector because (wait for it)
the building inspector refused his hand drawn alteration of a deceased surveyors survey of the property in the 90’s
I declined
In Georgia the Statute of Limitations is from the date of survey. After seven years you can (if you wish) give out copies of that old plat without fear of litigation. That DOES NOT say that you should or would give that copy, just that the legal problems wouldn’t be involved.
Andy
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