Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Ask A Surveyor › Official City map vs iron pins
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The Right-of-Way matters, because that dictates the Point-of-Beginning.
Who told you that? What matters in a old subdivision is where the boundary lines have been established. A great place to start in an old subdivision is finding harmony comparing the map to the location of the oldest infrastructure in a particular block. Also the fact irons don’t agree from block to block is not uncommon in old subdivisions and is for the most part irrelevant to the location of established (legal) boundaries in another block. There have been many surveys disregarded by the court including in CA that attempted to fix everything by starting at some distant POB and laying out the “official” map off of it.
Knerr v. Mauldin comes to mind.
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How binary circuits work, at least in computers: The answer flips back and forth unpredictably between 0 and 1 until the clock cycle runs out, and whatever the signal is when the clock says “time’s up” is the answer.
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“Original monuments are king, they hold over paper notations.”
This statement is overly broad. Called for original monuments occupy the summit of the hierarchy of calls. Other monuments, even those first set, are evidence but must be proven. Merely setting monuments does not give them dignity. Owners must act in reliance upon them for them to become binding. For that to happen they must first be aware that they exist. This must be proven, not assumed.
We have here a story with a lot of holes. We have a compilation map showing width which may or may not be correct. We have monuments which were set we know not when, or by whom, and under what circumstances.
We have mention of Points of Beginning. P.O.B. would not be an issue if the right of way in question was established by plat. You do not describe platted property by reference to a P.O.B. Although not expressly stated the monuments do not seem to have been called for in the descriptions – if they had been their status would not be in question. The described depth of the lots, measured in from defined rear lines on both sides, may offer insight. The POB has no more importance than any other described corner. Nevertheless we may not have any comprehensive survey of the right of way, nor any definitive establishment document, nor any call for monuments in the deeds.
We need to look for a statute or local ordinance applicable at the time of establishment that dictates the width of newly opened rights of way. Even a pattern of local practice would be of interest. If right of way improvements fit neatly into a 60 foot corridor, that would make the width 60 feet by estoppel. If they fit a 50 foot width that argues in favor of that number. I think that courts would lean to the minimum that fills the public’s needs.
In short, the monuments are evidence. Maybe even strong evidence. But I’ll need to know a lot more about the whole setup before I declare them definitive. If I owned property abutting this RW I’d assume the wider width and act accordingly for the time being.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Norman_Oklahoma.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Norman_Oklahoma.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Norman_Oklahoma.
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Curious, you can’t provide vague information and expect clear answers. If you can’t provide all of the information on this public forum, then you need to establish a private connection. I’m unsure why you can’t do this with the 2 surveyors you have already hired. Ultimately the answer to your questions will reside with a surveyor and if not there, then the courts. But you have to provide all of the information to get fully informed answers.
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The City may have original field books containing information about the R. O. W. rods. I’d look through those records and any others that may come to your aid. Are there any recorded documents concerning a R. O. W. alteration? So many questions, and the only way to get to the bottom.
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Interesting… So, what determines Point-of-beginning? Would the map, that was drawn before the lot was sectioned off, then determine the Point-of-beginning? If so, then the row might vary, changing the actual lot size, more or less on the side of the road, but not on the other 3 sides – they would be determined by the map?
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I have been to the county court house, through nearly every minute book in city hall, and contacted the state to see if they had old maps/surveys. Whereas I can show that the city council would be who would determine any change in Row back to the mid-1800’s, there was never a vote to change the ROW on this particular street.
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