-
New Surveyors in your state
Hey everybody! I’ve been working for a surveyor in South Carolina for almost four years and am currently in college pursuing a forestry degree with an emphasis in land surveying. I’ve been reading a good bit about how there is going to be a shortage of surveyors in the upcoming years as the older generation of surveyors begins to retire. I’d love to know anything about working with these new young surveyors (good or bad) as well as stats on how many new surveyors are taking the test in whatever state you are in. I am on track to take over a surveying business in the next six to seven years, but I’m interested in seeing why there are so few new surveyors coming up. Thanks!
-
30 Replies
-
There is always a shortage in surveyors, has been since the late 1960s and heard stories of the same before then.
-
I do not believe there is a shortage and do not believe there will ever be. We definitely need a shortage to reset the costbenefit ratio of what we do. A shortage is needed to thin the herd and raise our rates but as it is there is far more surveyors than the market needs.
You can guarantee that every state board will lower the bar to allow more people to become licensed and thereby flood the market with more licensees and keep prices depressed.
Party chiefs and instrument operators though are in high demand.
-
I have 50 years of experience in the field with 36 of those years as a licensed professional. Your question “why there are so few surveyors coming up” is difficult to answer. There are probably a lot of reasons, but I can only speak from my own point of view.
The biggest reason in today’s professional climate is probably the money. A young person pursuing a career in land surveying nowadays will probably be required to have a BS degree or equivalent. Then there is (it varies by state) a period of training time required before an examination for licensure. All totaled, you’re looking at 8 to 10 years from start to finish before obtaining licensure. And while the money varies with the locale, land surveyors don’t generally keep up with the salary curve compared to other degreed professionals in my humble opinion. A young person with a decent salary as a primary target could make better choices. And I think a lot of people perpetuate the stigma that someone working outdoors in at times a strenuous environment isn’t a desirable position.
That leaves us with those that are in the profession because we love it. I endured years of working for pay that fell short of a lot of my peers. But surveying captured me early and spoiled me to positions with less fresh air and without constantly changing scenery.
It’s not for everyone. A good living can be had as a surveyor, but there are no guarantees. Whether you prefer the office end of things or seeing the world through a windshield, it is work. And there are a lot of people that want a career with not so much of that…
Coming home at night sunburned and tick-bit with clothes tattered from barb wire and saw briars doesn’t necessarily feel good. But if it makes you satisfied and proud, you might have what it takes. I believe that’s why there are fewer of us than other professions.
-
The critical shortage, I think, is of competent staff. There may be too many many PLSs.
Let us remember that for several years starting in 2008 there was very little entry level hiring done, and even the least experienced team members were jettisoned. Those people who weren’t hired, and those who were sent away, would have been the ones who aren’t taking the PLS test right now, or at least aren’t filling the skilled underling positions.
-
I’ve been surveying for about 20 years; licensed for 15. Like others have said–it depends on what you mean by shortage. And it depends on what you think a shortage implies. If you think a surveyor shortage will raise wages, you may be sadly disappointed if other stronger factors are at work. For instance, if you live in an area of low land values, low subdivision requirements, low labor union participation, and few public works projects, then I doubt a surveyor “shortage” will have much of a wage benefit whatsoever.
On the other hand, if you are tapping into a market with all the opposite characteristics–high land values, highly regulated land development, high union participation, and lots of public works projects–then wages are already high there and likely to respond well to shortages.
I live in a state with (historically) high union participation and lots of public works projects. Wages are high here and likely to increase. Additionally, our state includes construction surveyors in their prevailing wage rates. And on the design/basemapping side, surveyors have price protection under Brooks Act procurement rules. On the construction side, surveyors have wage protection under the Davis-Bacon (and Little Davis-Bacon) Act.
-
I agree with Paden Cash. There are not many surveyors getting licensed because most people who have a college degree are not going to spend the time getting paid very little to get their experience. Also, surveying is tough work and most people with college degrees are not willing to do physical work outside. They went to college to escape this work. Engineers used to become dual licensed but I find that they are not doing this anymore for the most part. In addition, technology (GPS, robotics) are making the survey “crew” consist of one person so you do not have green horns learning the ropes. FYI i am taking my PS and SC state exam this summer.
-
It is much like what I call the “MD” problem in my corner of the world. It used to be that when you sought medical care you went to an office and saw a person who had MD after their name being assisted by someone with an RN or LPN after their name. Very rare to see one in general practice here now. If you are lucky you can find a DO. If you are really lucky you might find a DO whose first language is English. Now a PA or an ARNP is the “big cahuna” at the “doctor’s office” with some remote DO or MD supposedly being in charge, but never present. Most “doctors” are direct employees of hospitals who carry them on their liability policies.
So, from my perspective, there is an amazing lack of MD’s yet, somehow, we are forced to get by without them.
Today’s world finds far fewer LS’s hacking through weeds and wading through swamps.
-
A lot depends on where you are located. Idaho is losing PLSs at a rate of 10 per year. Most firms are struggling to find talent. I get 6 figure offers every month or two.
Looking back, I think we can find a few key things that contributed to the current situation. The biggest fsctor was going from 4 to 3, 3 to 2, then 2 to 1 man crews. We simply do not build surveyors the same way any more.
Our other issue was squandering every tech advance that came along. The EDM becsme common, we bought one and dropped our rates to ‘compete’. GPS and Robotics, cut the prices again. We are the only profession that invests all of our profit to cut our billable hours and rates.
After the last downturn we saw some positive changes. Real salaries. Prices going up. Some prestige returning. Again, very different here than some places,
-
That is a great point that many college grads don’t want a “working” job. I myself love every aspect of land surveying that i have come across in my few short years, and I love the satisfaction that starting a simple topo and finishing the as built house survey brings. The office is always changing and different jobs present different problems to figure out. I have just wondered if there is enough education on surveying as a profession because for me, I luckily stumbled into my job and it has made for many more opportunities for me than another job would have provided.
-
What part of SC are you in?
-
I was at the SC conference last week and it was said that more licensed surveyors past away than got their PLS down there. I think the number licensed was 5 or 6.
-
Potential entrepreneurs fresh off a 4 year degree need to realize the importance of business in general. It’s imperative they learn communication skills, accounting, and diplomacy (especially how to dress when marketing services) as well as evaluating, educating, and managing personnel.
The above are just as important as your surveying skills. ????
-
Like any profession, there is no one market for surveyor demand (or related salary). Additionally there isn??t the transferability of skill between positions just because people have PLS (or whatever is used locally) after their name
An over abundance of local small town general practitioners doesn??t affect the demand for cardiac surgeons
-
Good points on business. It’s part of the professional package..
In the northwest we see a trend to fewer people holding more licenses, obscuring the actual number in the PLS pool. In my early career anything more than 2 licenses was looked at funny. Anything less than 3 is unusual now. What are other areas seeing?
-
Looking back, I think we can find a few key things that contributed to the current situation. The biggest fsctor was going from 4 to 3, 3 to 2, then 2 to 1 man crews. We simply do not build surveyors the same way any more.
Our other issue was squandering every tech advance that came along. The EDM becsme common, we bought one and dropped our rates to ‘compete’. GPS and Robotics, cut the prices again. We are the only profession that invests all of our profit to cut our billable hours and rates ??? ??? ??? ???
-
Agree totally with the reason for a shortage is the four year degree requirement. There’s no question that for the last twenty years or so a lot more people retired and/or died than received new licenses, at least in my state.
-
I think there should still be the dual path for licensure, with the amount of education reducing the amount of experience required (but not totally replacing experience). And a moderate amount of education should be required, even if the applicant doesn’t have a degree.
Measurement is pretty easy to learn and perform, but the underlying geodesy is not, so too many people don’t know what their machinery is doing for them, if it is doing what needs to be done, and what it really means. Witness all the grid/ground, datum offset, and basis of bearing discussions.
It’s essential to have studied a significant amount of boundary law if you are going to do that work. And I don’t think any state has separate license endorsement options for construction versus hydrology versus boundary, which I think would be a good idea.
. -
Can’t really go with that. No degree requirement in Oregon, Washington, or Oklahoma and the status seems to be the same.
-
Take a second look at Oregon. They now have a 4 year degree requirement, up to 24 hours of which can be swapped for 2 years experience.
After 2022, Washinton will be the last of the northwestern states with no degree requirement. This has been in the works a long time. As was said already, the net loss does not coincide with the degree requirement.
-
Check OAR 820-010-2020 (11). Allows that 12 years experience is valid qualification.
Items 1-10 detail the allowance for the degree, and variations thereof. But a degree is not an absolute requirement. There is still a path for experience only.
Log in to reply.