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Map copies
Posted by sergeant-schultz on October 7, 2020 at 3:53 pmI surveyed a rural property in 2007. Current owner emailed me asking for copy of my map. Sent her an unsigned/unsealed pdf. She emailed back saying attorney wants signed sealed (at date of original in 2007) copy. She’s selling the property, which she took title to in 2015, waiving updated survey at that time. Her buyer will waive updated survey, just wants a legible stamp/signature. Thoughts?
Thanks! SS
tommy-young replied 3 years, 6 months ago 23 Members · 28 Replies- 28 Replies
There is a price for everything. I would figure out your liability cost of doing this and tell them the number. If the survey cost $2000 to do then a check for $500 might be enough to handle a request like this.
—Dan MacIsaac, PLSHere, I would tell them to get a copy from the courthouse.
A 13 year old Survey already waived in a previous transaction? No way. If they are so anxious to close let them use the same Survey they originally used. ????
What dgm said with a large note or signed waiver saying it is provided as a courteous copy and no update has been performed since 2007 etc.
They are profiting on your work so you should profit also.
Jim
I no longer work in non-recording States, problem solved.
Assuming I still lived in such a place, I would not release anything without a contract (and up front payment). Nobody would get an un-signed anything unless marked drsft, and my signature gets dated the current date.
This map would get a certificate saying what it is. The cert would be clear it is based on laws, rules, conditions and research as of X date, and that conditions are likely to have changed. Throw in a recommendation to have it surveyed for good measure.
This is exactly what I’ve been complaining about. Sounds like the current owner was never your client, but somehow feels that you, having surveyed the property at some point in the past, are the repository for the records of her property that she can just call up and get access to upon request.
@jph We run into this a lot from real estate agents and attorneys. I’m still surprised sometimes by the indignation I’m met with when I tell them we don’t release maps to anyone who was not our client.
It seems to be getting worse too. Our re-dates have went from 4-6 a week to almost nothing.
I recently heard of a closing where the current owner signed a “Survey affidavit” stating that nothing on map (which was done for a previous owner) had changed to his knowledge. What kind of weight does that hold?
Move to a recording state.
Short of that, I wouldn’t sign in now, but can’t you provide a copy of the plat you signed in 2007? I can’t see how that would add to your liability. They already know what you did, so any negligence on your part would already be out in the open, and a plat signed in 2007 can’t make you liable for anything that has changed since then.
I have no clue how non-recording states work in this regards but if the owner is not your client they should not be obligated to any or your documents. If they want a current survey they should hire someone to survey it.
@aliquot Besides wanting me to extend my liability to a subsequent owner, why is a stamped/signed copy, even one dated 2007, better than an unsigned/unstamped copy, if all they want is a picture of the property lines?. “Affidavits of no change” are pretty common hereabouts. A good friend of mine refinanced his mortgage and the bank wanted a survey, but would accept an “affidavit of no change” – so he signed one regarding the map he got when he purchased the property –
- after he had razed an existing garage and built a giant pole barn. I tried to explain the concept of perjury……
The few times I’ve been asked for something like this (CA is a recording state, so mostly there’s no reason for such requests) I’ve put a nominal price on the copy, which almost always results in the requester realizing he doesn’t really need the copy after all.
Worse than that, I once gave a price to “update” and ALTA. They came back later saying that they don’t need an updated ALTA, just a letter from me saying that nothing has changed on the site since my original ALTA.
They were incredibly surprised when I said that I wouldn’t do that, since everyone else involved said that was all they needed. And they weren’t expecting to pay me for said letter. So strange.
An unsigned copy isn’t worth much. How does anyone know it actually represents your professional opinion? I certainly wouldn’t rely on an unsigned copy.
A copy signed in 2007 assures the user that they have a representation of your 2007 professional opinion. It is their responsibility to determine if your 2007 opinion is sufficient for their purposes.
I wouldn’t sign a survey I did in 2007 today. I am not even sure what purpose that would serve. I can’t think of any time, except maybe a criminal investigation, where it would be appropriate to sign a document that represents what your opinion was 13 years ago.
In my opinion the two choices are to do the work required to create a new document (and charge for it), or give them a copy of the document that was signed in 2007.
This may come as a surprise, but there are an awful lot of lawsuits over boundary issues in the recording states. I would recommend a current survey even to people in recording states.
I provide archive copies if you sign the form declining my services and pay me for a few hours administrative time. Like Jim, most decide not to follow up so it only costs me 5 minutes.
- Posted by: @sergeant-schultz
I surveyed a rural property in 2007. Current owner emailed me asking for copy of my map. Sent her an unsigned/unsealed pdf. She emailed back saying attorney wants signed sealed (at date of original in 2007) copy. She’s selling the property, which she took title to in 2015, waiving updated survey at that time. Her buyer will waive updated survey, just wants a legible stamp/signature. Thoughts?
Thanks! SS
Is she asking the attorney from 2007 to sign his title review and provide that as well?!
I charge for file recovery. It takes time, and I don’t have a large format copy machine so there is that. Before I let anything leave my office, I review the file, field notes and make an assessment of the risk of liability and charge accordingly. I would never change anything on a map or recertify unless there was a field visit and confirmation that what you see is what is there. I also make a determination as to if the party requesting this “service” is worthy of it or my time. Some are just fishing for something free and I don’t have for them. I educate real estate professionals as to the importance of accurate and timely information. Some get it. But to be honest, most just disagree with my process and fee.
That all said if my client called me because they misplaced their map and it is not recorded (not all maps need to be on record) I am happy to provide what I can. That is just good business.
BTW, my policy has been developed with input from my E&O insurance company. You need to understand their position.
Nope! If they have the original survey, use it, if not, pay to update it. If you sign/seal again, you renew your liability for free.
Just say NO!
What’s to stop an unscrupulous lawyer or re from obtaining a free a free copy of a survey then, turning around and billing someone at closing ?
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