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Long Range Bluetooth Connection
Just curious, I don’t want to get into too much detail (yet), but I have to know if am I the only one out here having bluetooth connections between data collector and total station? The biggest issues are happening while we are traversing though wooded areas. It’s not uncommon for us to loose connection at 250-300′. This requires us to use the robotic total station almost like a traditional instrument since someone has to be near the instrument for the data collector to link up.
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34 Replies
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I only had this issue when I was working around a lot of buildings and vehicles (many of them with Bluetooth devices active in them likely) I could lose connection when trying to shoot between houses that were very close together. It didn’t happen often but occasionally. This was a Leica TCRP1203+ with the RH17 Bluetooth radio handle and a Panasonic fz-m1 tablet.
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Sure sounds like something’s amiss. Using a Carlson DC with a Leica, usually get 600’+
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My first check would be the antennae.
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Thanks for the responses.
So our “current” set up is a Geomax zoom 95 with the X-pad on a juniper mesa3 tablet. The zoom 95 has the long range Bluetooth handle (ZRT 82) attached (I sprung for the extra $$ thinking the promised 1200′ range would help). I say our “current” set up because we have gone through several different tablets (somewhere in the order of 4-6; Geomax Zenius 800, Juniper Cedar CT8x2, Samsung Active3). With the previous tablets, we were only getting 250′-400′ tops IN THE OPEN!!! Once the bluetooth lost connection we had to trek back to within 50′-100′ of the instrument to regain connection. This current setup has been the best yet.
I’m no radio wave scientist, but the connection seems to foul up when our traverse window closes up. or if there is an obstruction (let’s say a truck) directly between the robot and the tablet.
I’m honestly taken aback that NO ONE else is having these issues.
Could it be that I’m just the brunt of a really, really well orchestrated joke?
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In the open I was able to get close to 1000′ work the 1203+ and the Panasonic tablet. I also tested it with the tsc7 at one point and it went well beyond 1000′. However it’s very inconsistent depending on the surroundings.
I will say it is one of the few issues I had with the Leica compared to the radio on the Trimble…but usually it would be a long backsight I couldn’t get Bluetooth so I would just set up a backsight prism on a tripod.
I think with the Trimble I spend a lot more time waiting for the radio to connect than I did setting up backsights for the Leica. Not sure why the radio is so slow and unreliable to connect on the Trimble, I’ve always found Bluetooth unreliable but on the Leica radio handle it would always connect immediately unless I was a long way away.
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@jmh2884 I am currently using a Zoom95 with the long range handle and Xpad on a Samsung Tab Active 3 and I can confirm your findings. Xpad seems to occasionally freeze when losing connection. On some occasions I managed to reestablish connection from more than 200′ by going to the TPS tab. That seemed to reset the connection. On other occasions I had to to turn off Xpad and get closer to the robot in order to connect.
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I’m running a Panasonic fz-b2 which has pretty low processor/ram spec (but excellent battery life!) given the focus seemed durability/stability with a zoom 90 (same radio handle) and I find XPAD will just freeze up on occasion which requires a hard reset of tablet.
Maximum range (line of sight) I get is 180-200m but if I go behind a fence or car have had it drop out at ~70m; perhaps you have too many trees between you and instrument when walking to next/last traverse mark? The Bluetooth radio much more line of sight than a UHF GNSS radio.
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Surprised the tab active 3 has the same problems with it being Bluetooth v5.
Do you find the spen good for taking field notes on tablet and is it any good in wet/cold with gloves on?
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Wondering why you stopped using the Samsung tab active 3? Was it the battery life?
Had assumed it would have better Bluetooth range than my Panasonic fz-b2 and was looking at one as an upgrade as thought it would be great to have s-pen to take field notes and use in cold when I have gloves on.
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@lukenz Xpad, as we all know, is a work in progress. With the Tab Active 3, I am losing around 15% of battery power every hour and I have it set on Battery Saving mode, basically a black screen and Bluetooth only, and no SIM card. The screen doesn’t turn off automatically after 30 sec of inactivity when the Xpad is running, so my only way of conserving battery is to turn off the screen manually (the button below the volume). When I turn it back on, sometimes the XPad freezes, and I need to restart it. The good thing is that it remembers the setup and I just get back to work.
I did use the Tab Active 3 in below-freezing temperatures (-8 celsius) and it performed well even with my thick gloves. I also got in a bit of a sprinkle one day and I had to reduce the touchscreen sensitivity in order to avoid ghost touches at each drop location. It worked well afterward even with the wet screen. My take is that the Tab Active 3 is a good tablet to use with Xpad if you only use it for about 6 hours. The battery is just 5050mAh, a bit small for an 8″ screen tablet. The large screen is a plus if you’re using the CAD in Xpad, or taking notes. I am planning the get an external battery to extend the internal battery life. My work days are sometimes 14hrs in the summer.
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I’m running a Leica MS50 with Leica CS20 controller. The MS50 specs long range bluetooth up to 1000 meters. From my experience after using the equipment for the last 6 years 1000 meters is either in extremely optimal conditions or a huge exaggeration. At times I can be locating a sideshot 300 feet away with direct line of sight and lose bluetooth. Most of the time I’m lucky to get 800 feet away without losing bluetooth. If there is ANY direct line of sight obstruction it usually kills the connection. The compounding issue that occurs when I lose bluetooth is sometimes I can’t regain the connection by moving closer or back to the MS50 without powering equipment off and back on. This has been a major issue working solo and often times compromises the efficiency of robotics. Very frustrating to be standing in the middle of the road trying to get a sideshot 300 feet away while dodging vehicles and fight with bluetooth. Causes me to have some colorful language with the equipment. After having the equipment checked multiple times the only explanation I get is it’s due to environmental interference. Maybe environmental interference in more urban settings but when you’re in a rural setting?
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The battery life was definitely one of the issues. We couldn’t get a full day out of it. We were still not getting any range out of the Samsung.
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That’s odd as the CS20 with a TS16 is solid out to ~300m without a building etc. in the way.
Any further and you want to be using the GNSS typically.
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Thanks for replying and that’s interesting how well your TS16 bluetooth works. Was the TS16 introduced with the MS60 and Captivate? If so maybe newer/better technology. Other than that I can only wonder if it’s a problem with my instrument or just the way it is with MS50. When the instrument was purchased I was running it with CS15 on Viva and had bluetooth issues right from the start. Do you have issues like I described with reconnecting forcing me to power off and back on?
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Thanks for replying and that’s interesting how well your TS16 bluetooth works. Was the TS16 introduced with the MS60 and Captivate? If so maybe newer/better technology. Other than that I can only wonder if it’s a problem with my instrument or just the way it is with MS50. When the instrument was purchased I was running it with CS15 on Viva and had bluetooth issues right from the start. Do you have issues like I described with reconnecting forcing me to power off and back on?
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The ts16 uses the same RH17 or RH16 Bluetooth radio handle I was using on the 1203+ so it shouldn’t affect range. Probably the cs20 just has better Bluetooth range.
Our 1203+ came with a cs15 and that didn’t last long before something caused it to not go further than about 30 feet connected to the rh15 radio handle (non Bluetooth). I used paranis for a few months to use it with the Panasonic windows 10 tablet before the boss invested in an rh17 which was much better.
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Also use a CS15/TS15 combo which is also good out to ~300m line of sight.
Don’t have the disconnection issues you describe with either. That said I’ve never been far enough to get it to drop out (using RTK GNSS if over 300m) and only use that gear for rural work where little radio interference or buildings in the way nor in heavy bush.
Only Leica robot Radio problems I’ve had were on an older 1205 with the external radio (not radio handle) which I suspect had some issue (whole kit was replaced due to age before got it fixed)
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Are you sure you are connecting to the Bluetooth handle and not the internal Bluetooth? The handle’s ID when you scan will start with ‘ZRT82_xxxxxx’. I think the internal Bluetooth on a Z90 starts with ‘Zoom_xxxxxx’ <- Wrong.
On the Zoom 90, I think the internal Bluetooth would turn off when you selected the handle. However, on the Zoom 95 they are both visible if you turn on the handle. However, if you connect to the internal Bluetooth with the handle selected, it won’t work unless you select it in the toolbox.
You can also tell if the handle is in use because the LEDs will flash once you connect.
Make sure the flip up antenna is pushed all the way on. It can pop off and then only be partially pushed on. It will look okay, but you can push it further and it will click.
How far are you getting the the wide open?
Can you exchange handles with someone else and see if the range improves? (If your gun is from us, let me know and I will loan you another handle.)
I only get 900 feet to an RT4 which I think has the same Bluetooth as a Mesa 3, but I get over 2,000 feet to my cell phone in the same area. And to get the 900 feet I have to have the screen between me and the gun, not on the other side of my body. It is kind of bad that a purpose built device is outgunned by a consumer cell phone.
The range you are seeing is what I would expect if I connected to the Zoom 95’s internal Bluetooth instead of the handle.
The last year has been tough for Bluetooth problems across all instruments.
—–Begin Tin Foil Hat warning: I think it has something to do with cell phones promiscuously scanning for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connections, then attempting to connect to everything to read the MAC. I read that the intent is to send the phone’s GPS location with the Bluetooth MAC address to a master online database. Then when other devices with the GPS turned off get near, devices can send the available Bluetooth and WiFi MAC address to the overlord and infer a position.
Since the PIN codes for survey equipment by default are ‘1234’, ‘123456’, or ‘0000’ the cell phones can connected and interrogate the devices by ‘guessing’ the codes.
My F250 pickup truck also attempts to connect to EVERYTHING it sees.
I think I have solved the problem with my equipment by changing the Blueototh PIN codes on my receivers to my home address. But I don’t know how to change the PIN code on my Z95 robot’s Long Range handle. I can change it on the internal Bluetooth (the default is 0000), but not the handle.
End Tin Foil Hat——
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@mark-silver
Thank you for taking the time to help and explain, and this was not purchased from iGage.
As I mentioned earlier, we have gone through several different tablets. What I did not mention is that we also worked with several different zoom 95 instruments (loaners), and even different bluetooth handles. The outcome was the same with every combination. I can’t tell you how many hours we have lost dealing with this. We have spent several days with our rep duplicating the problem and even spent time on a phone conference with the Xpad program engineers showing them the problems.
I have discussed this issue with other individuals that use similar Carlson equipment (appears to be the same equipment, just different software). None of them have experienced these issues. A rhetorical question, but is this a bluetooth issue that’s across the board that we just have to learn to deal with from now on, or is this a program issue that shouldn’t exist at this point in this time of technological advances?
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I am sure that you have already done this, but just to make sure:
have you ‘told’ the tablet to NOT swap X-PAD out?
see: https://iggps.com/out/X-PAD/FAQ/FAQ_XPAD_BackgroundOptimization_001.pdf
The exact procedure varies by manufacturer (Samsung vs. Google) but is close enough to muddle through.
This particular issue happens when the encrypted Bluetooth channel is put to sleep by the tablet to save power.
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