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Is it unethical and a conflict of interest to perform my own survey?
aliquot replied 1 year, 7 months ago 44 Members · 203 Replies
My opposition to your view is that it allows for zero nuance which implies that you’ve focused on one aspect of ethics to the determent of others. Ethics falls under the discipline of philosophy where few absolutes exists. I work against my instinct to take black and white views as it has a tendency to encourage me to judge others unfairly. As can be evidenced on this forum, I don’t always succeed at this.
Having no ability to read your mind or put your words in any other context than this thread and others, it appears to me that by emphasizing a, no-never-under-no-circumstances approach to this situation, you have chosen to overly simplify ethics.
I found, Justice: What’s the Right Thing to Do, to be a valuable aid to help recognize when I’m trying to make something complicated or uncertain seem simple. Academic Earth is a great resource. The link takes you to a full semester Harvard philosophy course taught by Michael Sandel.
*Disclaimer: This post is not meant to imply that anyone posting is not well versed in philosophy, lacking in intelligence, inferior or deficient in any way, or incorrect in their views. You’re probably right and I’m aware that I’m often wrong.
If this is a conflict of interest, then where does it stop? Can you then also not survey for family or friends?
I usually think of conflict of interest when a company gets a municipal contract where the owner’s brother is the town manager.
In this case, it’s private property and the owner has the right to hire whoever he wants. So, he’s not worrying about any potential conflicts. The only possibility would then be the abutters. But that’s a possible issue in pretty much every survey we do, and they’re welcome to then hire their own surveyor to check and/or dispute
- Posted by: @not-my-real-name
So, the appearance of a conflict of interest is not a conflict of interest. It may be a psychological fact, but that does not make it true.
That sorta hits the nail on the head !
If it’s headed for Court, better get another Surveyor that you haven’t had any relationship with. Opposing Attorney worked my impartial Expert Witness Surveyor over pretty hard trying to show we had some type of a relationship.
The opposing Attorney will definately make a big deal out of your surveying for yourself.
Currently working on a job for my sister. It’s just another job.
Would it be unethical to be the surveyor for a new subdivison and purchase one of the lots? i dont think so.
- Posted by: @rover83
Where in the hell did you get religion out of anything that I have posted?
You’re missing the point. Arguments from absolutes (bandwagon fallacy) should be a huge, huge red flag. People use them because they’re a good way to diminish opposing arguments by oversimplifying the situation. I brought up the bible example because it’s probably one of the, in my opinion, better known bandwagon fallacy arguments in the history of mankind (the subject matter in the example is irrelevant).
Posted by: @rover83Considering you dismiss my position out of a desire to prove that you are better than everyone else (immune to bias), you have a lot to learn about the fundamentals of ethics.
No, I dismiss the argument because it commits a logical fallacy. If I reject the notion that someone who finds themselves in a position to abuse said position is automatically untrustworthy then your only recourse is to prove the person actually acted in such a way which, not surprisingly, is exactly where the line between what is legal or not is drawn.
Posted by: @rover83If that’s what you’re taking away from ethics courses, you’re not only a poor student but also paranoid and vindictive.
But we’re not talking about “ethics courses”. We’re talking about a very specific philosophical concept (conflict of interest) in a very specific situation (surveying one’s own property). Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what is meant by conflict of interest in this particular instance. Is it not the notion that the professional can’t be trusted to perform the job in an objective manner?
Posted by: @rover83It appears that you have missed the fact that the vast majority of ethical philosophy is founded upon the notion that we don’t get to pick and choose what is right based upon our personal whims.
You’re right, what is “right” was decided by state and federal legislatures and codified into law. Except, apparently we have this other “ghost law” floating around out there that suggests you’re a bad person if you act a certain way in a certain situation even though you haven’t broken any law.
And this is exactly why I made the comparison to political correctness run amok. Both things attempt to punish, or at the very least control, people over imagined infractions. In a country where we already have various regulatory agencies and a robust legal system in place it really is quite insane.
Believe it or not, I see your point of view.
But I think we have a fundamentally different worldview with regard to when/whether personal ethics can override professional ethics, and what the goal of a professional ethics code is or should be.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil PostmanYou’re either over-thinking things, or are too much of a worrier. Or maybe you have such an over-hyped value system, that you’re finding issues where there are none.
There’ll always be people who think we skew things for our clients because they’re paying us. Not sure what’s so different about this, then.
But I’ll agree, if a boundary with an abutter is something other than straight-forward, then extra caution or a second set of eyes might be a good idea.
to each his own. What is unethical to me may not be unethical to you. Every time we make a boundary decision for our Clients, we have a perceived bias in favor of our Clients. It is up to the professional to make decisions based on the facts and to be able to defend same if necessary.
Those of you who think it is a conflict or unethical – don’t do it.
Never given testimony where opposing counsel has not made a point of the fact that I am being paid, hence, my opinion must be biased right?
Rules of professional responsibility for Judges require them to avoid “appearance of conflict”, but same rules for attorneys do not and only address actual conflict.
If surveying my own property and turns out legitimate couple of locations of a line possible, then I would want someone else to make the decision, and have done that in the past.
If anyone wants to witness an example of lack of ethics and multiple examples of conflict of interest, let me introduce you to a local banker. He has become rich by using the thought, “rules only apply to those stupid enough to follow them” He is following a pattern established by several generations of his ancestors. He is also a real estate broker and sits of the board of directors operating the local elderly-care facility.
- Posted by: @tfdoubleyou
I see the obvious conflict of interest
Several states (perhaps all) have some form of formalized Code of Conduct for the profession. In many, a conflict of interest is defined as a case in which the licensee’s interest is contrary to the interest of the public, employer, or clients. Personally, I do not see that your interest is contrary to any of those groups of people. It would be in your best interest to have a properly conducted survey to define the new boundaries and that the survey meet all local and state requirements. I do not think you have an actual conflict of interest.
There is the potential for an appearance of a conflict of interest. Many of the same code of conduct sections found in either statute or regulation also address this matter and state that if there is a possibility of a conflict of interest, involved parties should be notified. Since your neighbor has been made aware and is agreeable, it seems you have met that requirement. If your neighbor was not comfortable with you surveying the new division based on that potential conflict of interest, I would opine that the appropriate action would be to step away from doing so.
I’ve taught a standards/code of conduct/ethics seminar for the past 10 years and this point has been discussed several times. It is a fairly evenly split discussion with maybe a slight preponderance of attendees leaning towards surveying your own property being acceptable with full disclosure to those parties involved.
I’ve heard tales of a banker that would never quash a loan to a known drunk. He figured he could foreclose on the property fairly quickly.
He did end up owning lots of property……of course that was years before more intense rules about loans were developed.
- Posted by: @hpalmer
What is unethical to me may not be unethical to you.
This is so true. I had my own set of preconceived ideas concerning ethics and application within our states Code of Conduct prior to a couple of presentations of an ethics/standards course. After a couple of presentations with discussion from audience highly encouraged, it was VERY apparent that not everyone had the same views. Surprisingly, we were all individuals with our own interpretations.
One of my old mentors called it the ‘Red Face’ test. Could I explain exactly what I did in front of my peers with a clear conscience, without the appearance that I deceived anyone for personal gain.
Willy- Posted by: @jon-payne
There is the potential for an appearance of a conflict of interest. Many of the same code of conduct sections found in either statute or regulation also address this matter and state that if there is a possibility of a conflict of interest, involved parties should be notified.
This ^
I think that some are drawing the line at the appearance part, and not going further. Thanks for explaining it further
- Posted by: @not-my-real-name
Can a carpenter build himself a house?
A carpenter building his own house can’t take part of their neighbors house.
I find it disturbing that people are falling back to state standards. Is that how we measure ethics?
Of course you shouldn’t do it. At minimum there is an appearance of a conflict of interest. Even from.a selfish point of view, why burden your boundary with an unnecessary point of attack?
Our quasi-judicial decisions are only as good as the trust they engender.
New lines we create between ourselves and another have an obvious route to dishonest personal gain.
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