Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Business, Finance & Legal › Is it unethical and a conflict of interest to perform my own survey?
Is it unethical and a conflict of interest to perform my own survey?
aliquot replied 1 year, 6 months ago 44 Members · 203 Replies
No problem that I know about. There are multiple subdivisions locally that were surveyed from land owned by engineer/surveying companies. They surveyed the entire projects developed them and sold them. Same with the office I’m sitting in.
My old partner owns around it and it’s being developed and surveyed by him and his land partner. Until he retired he was doing the surveying, now it’s arms length but some property was sold off when he was still in practice. I didn’t hesitate to survey my house, my mother’s house, my sister’s house.
When the contractor was pouring concrete at my house, did I want another surveyor laying out grades? Nope!!
- Posted by: @notsomuch
More importantly, what does your licensing body think of this scenario? It may be wise to ask them.
Ethical – NO! Legal^^^^^^^ THIS IS THE BEST ADVICE^^^^^^^
- Posted by: @not-my-real-name
The appearance of a conflict of interest is not a conflict of interest.
The appearance of a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest, by definition. Nothing has to actually take place for it to be a conflict.
dd Can two adjoining property owners do their own survey for the purpose of exchanging property? If so does it only become unethical when one of the property owners is a professional surveyor? If the only other party with an interest in the deal is agreeable to the arrangement, why should anyone else be involved? Will you be taking advantage of him in some way because you hold a surveying license? No. It is 2 people making an agreement and you are not exercising an advantage over him by doing the survey. If you screw it up you will be just as liable and the other party will have the same recourse. If you were doing a survey of a property you had an interest in and did not disclose that interest, that would be unethical. Everything here is known and above board. As long as the other party is agreeable there isn’t anything unethical.
@ric-moore He’s been deceased for a number of years. I met him several times and we had a good relationship. No Hawaiian shirts but he was a character with an eye for business. His MO back in the 1970s as to purchase a large tract of land and subdivide it and sell lots off to people with poor credit, owner financed at 9%, collect the monthly payments knowing that they would eventually get behind and then he could repossess the property, keep the payments and resell it again. How he financed his retirement and I was able to get into a couple of acres while a starving college student back in the 90’s. Purchased several lots from him that way and he’d always joke with me I was one of the few people that actually paid him off to which I’d counter his only mistake was in betting against me. RIP Neil.
Willy- Posted by: @jph
Someone irrationally jumping to the suspicion of conflict of interest doesn’t necessarily equal appearance of conflict of interest
It’s the same thing, nor is it necessarily irrational, for people who don’t have the technical/professional expertise to develop suspicions i.e., the public and our clients.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman - Posted by: @jph
I disagree
Our surveying license should carry the presumption of competence. And I believe that land surveyors are still part of the general public who enjoy the presumption of innocence
It’s not the presumption of competence, but of impartiality, that matters.
That presumption of impartiality is maintained by practitioners avoiding situations that could be construed as self-serving by an ordinary observer.
Consider an engineer contracted to analyze and select three possible routes for a new segment of highway. One of those routes crosses a lucrative piece of commercial property he owns and would render it useless.
Might he be swayed by his personal interest in the matter? Absolutely.
Would a rational outside observer conclude that there is a possibility for him to hold his own interest above that of the public’s? Yup.
Is he competent to determine the best possible route? Sure.
So what if he’s competent? It’s not competence that matters. It’s the fact that he has a personal stake in this that could affect his decision. That’s it. Full stop.
As much as I believe in the phrase “never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups“, it doesn’t absolve me of the responsibility to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Whether or not the public understands it.
If more folks, professional or otherwise, took that attitude to heart, it wouldn’t seem so abnormal on this board or elsewhere.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman I would only worry about a Conflict of Evidence. If there’s any significant doubt, I would say no. Otherwise, no problem.
@rover83 I understand where you’re coming from, but I think each situation has to be looked at on a case by case basis and the presumption made that the competent professional is capable and be allowed the final say in whether they feel they are exposing themselves to undue scrutiny. To me there is a stark difference in surveying my own property in a boundary dispute with a neighbor where my survey might be used as evidence in court and me measuring the offset to a section line to stake the footings for my new shop so that I don’t place it within a setback. To me the essence of the word ‘professional’ connotes that good judgement will be used and not misappropriated for shady or fraudulent purposes.
WillyA local surveyor’s main business was buying up property, surveying it into tracts and selling the tracts. He did it all over the county. I was out on an old property of that surveyor for the present owner, there are fence posts marking rebar all over out there. The present owner asked me what they were and I replied that I believe they are marking tracts for sales that never happened.
I don’t have any problem with the practice of surveying your own property. I’m not seeing the issue, the board here must not have an issue cause I know board members that have done it.
Scale matters. If this were a million dollar transaction, the appearance of a conflict would matter. In a situation where no other parties are affected, all parties are made aware of the possible conflict, and the stakes are paltry, it’s just not in the same realm.
I certainly can think of situations where I wouldn’t do it, but this particular situation is not one of them.
The discussion of someone buying a property, subdividing it themselves, and selling it with reference to their monuments has no bearing on the case of surveying off a portion of something to buy yourself, whether or not you think there is a conflict in the latter case.
.- Posted by: @tfdoubleyou
Is it unethical and a conflict of interest to perform my own survey?
Unethical? That depends. Do you plan on abusing your position as the surveyor in responsible charge for this project? If not, then no, it is not unethical at all, imo.
It’s only a conflict of interest if you are proven to have done something unethical in your own favor.
I find it absurd that we’re trusted to not play favorites with strangers but the second we have a sliver of personal interest in a project then suddenly we’re crooks. It makes so little logical sense that it actually sounds more like a version of political correctness run amok.
Anyway, I think all you need to remember is that just because you’re licensed and working on your own property doesn’t mean you’re immune to a board review of your work. So, do a quality job and save yourself several thousand dollars or more.
- Posted by: @bstrand
I find it absurd that we’re trusted to not play favorites with strangers but the second we have a sliver of personal interest in a project then suddenly we’re crooks.
Reductio ad absurdum. Not what I posted or implied.
Posted by: @bstrandIt makes so little logical sense that it actually sounds more like a version of political correctness run amok.
Also no. This has nothing to do with political correctness.
Literally every basic ethics course covers conflict of interest. It’s one of the most basic and easy to understand concepts, and it applies to everyone, no matter how awesome they are at their job or how much of a stand-up guy they or their buddies think they are.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman - Posted by: @rover83
It’s one of the most basic and easy to understand concepts, and it applies to everyone, no matter how awesome they are at their job or how much of a stand-up guy they or their buddies think they are.
I’ve seen this argument before, in the bible. It doesn’t matter if you’re a believer or not, jesus died for you and thus, you owe him.
I generally dismiss these sorts of arguments out of hand because it’s clear to me the goal behind them is to control rather than to analyze and ultimately educate.
The entire notion of conflict of interest in the survey example above is one of prejudice. The professional is being preemptively judged as untrustworthy. Now, you say this concept has been taught in schools for some amount of time. That’s great, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a load of garbage.
I will agree that the notion of conflict of interest has its place in certain circumstances– like when getting the OK from my employer to propose on a project with my LLC that the company is also proposing on. But some kind of armchair, gut-feeling Minority Report nonsense? Yeah, I don’t have a problem swatting that down all day, every day.
- Posted by: @bstrand
I’ve seen this argument before, in the bible. It doesn’t matter if you’re a believer or not, jesus died for you and thus, you owe him.
Where in the hell did you get religion out of anything that I have posted? I’m veering far too close to P&R for my comfort but for the record I’m an atheist and critic of organized religion.
Posted by: @bstrandI generally dismiss these sorts of arguments out of hand because it’s clear to me the goal behind them is to control rather than to analyze and ultimately educate.
Considering you dismiss my position out of a desire to prove that you are better than everyone else (immune to bias), you have a lot to learn about the fundamentals of ethics.
Posted by: @bstrandThe entire notion of conflict of interest in the survey example above is one of prejudice. The professional is being preemptively judged as untrustworthy.
If that’s what you’re taking away from ethics courses, you’re not only a poor student but also paranoid and vindictive.
Posted by: @bstrandI will agree that the notion of conflict of interest has its place in certain circumstances– like when getting the OK from my employer to propose on a project with my LLC that the company is also proposing on. But some kind of armchair, gut-feeling Minority Report nonsense? Yeah, I don’t have a problem swatting that down all day, every day.
It appears that you have missed the fact that the vast majority of ethical philosophy is founded upon the notion that we don’t get to pick and choose what is right based upon our personal whims.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
Log in to reply.