Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Photogrammetry, LiDAR & UAS › Drones the future?
James Fleming, post: 449324, member: 136 wrote: You’d think for all the taxes you pay in California you’d get better service ;). I can download 1:1200 orthos from county GIS websites for the low, low price of…free.
Fine if all you need is 1:1200 but the UAV will give 1:200, much more useful for many things. Skwyd’s workflow is much the same as ours.although our sites tend to be much larger. We hadn’t used a 360 ground camera because you can get a similar result from the textured model with the added benefit of being able to select ANY point as the viewpoint – not quite as pretty, but does the same job.
Skwyd – have you tried taking those 360 images and processing them with the UAV data to fill in under foliage or add more detail to building faces in the point cloud – we found that building face detail worked well, filling under canopy less so.
[MEDIA=youtube]kuXkLwnx_ak[/MEDIA]
PS. In Aussie lingo, snag = sausage.
Lee County Florida has free LIDAR data available online, as well as up to date aerial images, not to mention a “plethora” of free GIS/KML files to download. I can see the benefit of the detailed imagery discussed above in the final product, but if I can do pretty much all the presentation documents from my chair, why invest in a drone? Kudos to those of you out there doing it and working on the “Bleeding edge**” (**trademark RADU) not unlike the first time buyers of static GPS units. You are doing the work that many of us will benefit from later.
Andy J, post: 450269, member: 44 wrote: Lee County Florida has free LIDAR data available online, as well as up to date aerial images, not to mention a “plethora” of free GIS/KML files to download. I can see the benefit of the detailed imagery discussed above in the final product, but if I can do pretty much all the presentation documents from my chair, why invest in a drone? Kudos to those of you out there doing it and working on the “Bleeding edge**” (**trademark RADU) not unlike the first time buyers of static GPS units. You are doing the work that many of us will benefit from later.
The question is: are drones the future?
The answer is no, they will not BE the future. I think the question should be: will drones be a regular, or frequent PART of the future. The answer is yes.Just like gps did not outright replace anything. Drones will not replace anything. It’s additive when it’s beneficial. And the threshold of beneficial is getting lower. More OTS software and lower cost equipment.
Lidar was exotic, and file formats were many. Now lidar point cloud data has fewer recognized formats that allows for easier integration into workflow. And hardly exotic. Drone operation and data output will also become normal, or at least closer to normal. And used more often when beneficial.
@Larry Scott – interesting comments about technology trends and how things change but really underlying fundamentals remain the same. However my initial introduction into surveying was in Summer of 1973 and I was a member of a chain gang. Our “high technology” was a transit and the other team ran elevations. Plumb bobs, sledgehammers and a hundred foot chain were used to locate pinpoints to pound hubs into the ground then position short nails with hollowed out heads on them in precise locations on top of a 2in x 2in square wooden hub.
My project was involved with laying out a new section of interstate grade bypass around our city. The crew chief often sent us out to run 1-2mile lines that took in the up and down slopes of the overpass dirt work to check our accuracy as a field team. He wanted to see if we could hit prior placed pins on hubs that he installed. We did not even have a 2 way radio on most runs, hand signals sufficed for distant communications. So yes some things do change as I am sure that not many of you ever learned how to work one of these….
Drones are not meant to do boundary work, never will. But they will and already are changing topo work. So is my mobile LiDAR unit.
Just picked up a Matrice 210 today.
The only thing that is constant is change.
@StLSurveyor I too am a licensed drone pilot and am curious as to your mobile LIDAR unit. Could you please ID the product and do you have plans to fly a LIDAR device with a drone. BTW you should be able to have a great time integrating the Matrice 210 into your workflow, a really nice flying machine! I fly an Inspire 2 and P4P. If you are into iOS display technology, I am told by others that the DJI Ground Station Pro app has a well developed mapping app which you might like to use.
@F H Leghorn I operate a Trimble Mx-2 Mobile LiDAR unit and we purchased the Matrice 210 to supplement the data sets from the Mx-2. We also have a robust inspection division. The Matrice will also fly 20-30 or so acres in about 10 mins. It is a very versatile aircraft with multiple camera configurations and payload options.
I met a guy who owns a Precision Agriculture firm in NH and uses an eBee with standard camera and infrared camera to determine plant health. He can pick out needs for fertilizer, watering and pests that are then transferred to a grid that is uploaded to the machine controlled tractors. He can get the grid down to 0.1′ but the farmers don’t need that: they want the grid at 10 square meters. He averages a 30% increase in profits for the farmers as they don’t waste the materials or time.
Check this out…Although I equate the Phatom 4 to a David White Transit. This is pretty nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuF5aZi1ic
- Posted by: StLSurveyor
Check this out…Although I equate the Phatom 4 to a David White Transit. This is pretty nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuF5aZi1ic
I’ve never done topo on 4.5 miles of road 300 feet wide in 2 days with a david white anything.
The Phantoms are cheap but should not be discounted. For a lot of projects they are the best tool…
- Posted by: StLSurveyor
Check this out…Although I equate the Phatom 4 to a David White Transit. This is pretty nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuF5aZi1ic
I think most Aerial and Survey companies have a Phatom 4, sure some may upgrade to a drone that has bigger batteries and can carry more weight, but I think it is a great drone. Also some would say the camera is more important than the drone.
The Phantom 4 (Pro, Advanced, etc) is a good drone, I agree. I am just implying that more often then not many folks use them for the wrong application and will hit their service limits rather quickly. Yes, you can turn angles with a David White Transit and complete a survey just fine. But we have all been surveying long enough to not use one on a project that matters. Not trying to offend anyone my apologies if I did so 🙂
Where I think the analogy falls apart is that a dw transit is limited in both quality and size of project. A product from a P4P on 40 acres will not be distinguishable from the same job with a fixed wing wizzganger with a 32mp 2 inch sensor. It will also not be significantly less efficient on the smaller projects.
I’m not offended, I just think you’re wrong?
I agree but a P4P on a multi-million dollar construction job is pushing it a little…
In my experience drones are limited to areas of around 30 acres because of the FAA requirements of a 400 foot maximum altitude, and to be able to see the aircraft at all times with vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf
With photogrammetry, the use of ground targets, and good ground visibility (absence of trees and short or no grass) the accuracy is quite good. Here is a link to a friends web site where he shows a comparison of contours derived from a drone based Dense Surface Model (DSM) and points recorded with an RTK-GPS:
http://www.i-maps.com/photogrammetry.htm#1
- Posted by: bisenberger
In my experience drones are limited to areas of around 30 acres because of the FAA requirements of a 400 foot maximum altitude, and to be able to see the aircraft at all times with vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses.
I would completely disagree with your 30 acres. The FAA rules are similar to those in the UK, except that the UK specify a normal maximum horizontal distance of 500 metres (less if the aircraft is too small to see unaided). That equates to something over 70 ha. or around 180 acres – per flight.
Clearly obstructions might reduce this, but that depends on where the flight is taking place. You don’t have to fly from the centre of the site; we would normally try and fly from the highest area even if that was to one side. At 400 ft. flying height obstacles have to be very high (or far too close to you for safety) to substantially reduce the visible sight range.
Four flights in a day would give you well over 600 acres. Flying a fixed wing aircraft would probably give around 25% more than a rotary, since the aircraft banks on the turns at the end of each line and this “throws” the coverage outside the area. Thus flights don’t need to overlap but can have a narrow corridor left between them.
As it happens, as I read this post we had an enquiry in from a client regarding extending a site we had flown for him a year ago. He needs another 100 metres outside the original boundary on one side. We have just checked the photography and it is all covered on the turns – a minimum of 6 photos for any point.
Happy client will get data tomorrow.
For clarification 30 acres is my typical maximum area, largely due ability to see the aircraft and flight time afforded by the battery (about 20 minutes at 5 meter/second). The maximum distance that I can still see the drone in good conditions is around 575 meters. If flight time wasn’t a factor that would be an area of about 256 acres. I don’t have a battery that big. ? Focal length also plays a role in the area of coverage, as well as resolution.
My first drone project was 220 acres with a P4P. There was waist high sage brush and grass over 30% of the job. We were able to extract the data we needed and generate a better surface than the test areas using only gps. The key was exracting data, not trying to manipulate and use the entire dsm. We augmented with one guy hitting things we thought would be hard to pick in photos or those critical for elevation. The profit from that job paid for the entire program up to that point.
I get the phantom series is limited. Many of these limits are self-imposed by users. Explore work flows beyond what is being taught. Push it, break it, then push it again. Just check your work carefully and know when to give up and upgrade. No different than any of our other tools..
Hi chris mills,
Looks like I was writing my post while you were writing yours.
A situation I have run into doing multiple flights to cover an area is, if you are creating orthophotos there is a noticeable change in shadows. I had a project where I tried to get around this by doing 2 to 3 flights a day, at the same time of day, over a period of a few days.
Here’s a link to an interactive map of the orhto and DSM for that project:
http://www.i-maps.com/3d-garage/al-baleed/al-baleed4.html
You can still see some variation in shadow, mainly along the sea wall.
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