Create new points from existing points in TBC and do elevation shiftPosted by OleManRiver on November 17, 2022 at 8:06 pm
Ok this is easy to do in excel it is has been my go to way. I bring raw data into TBC. Qa/qc the data. The. Export to csv file. I then have to compute new elevations based on design and re as built those in the field and the cycle keeps going on basically the same points just keeps getting a new elevation. I know civil3d will do a elevation adjustment on import export I believe. What i wondered is as i manage my project in TBC I can do all types of selections from the handy dandy tricks @rover told me in another thread. Why can??t i take that selection and do the computation and create a new group of points with just a vertical shift raising the elevation and then when I export it goes straight to the field for staking etc. i bet its like 3 clicks and done. I just been exporting and doing it in excel and then creating the new csv. But since this is repetitive for the next several years so is it a way to do this in TBC. Sometimes its 4 points sometimes 500 points.
- 29 Replies
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 9:27 pm
in TBC you can use ‘Transform survey points’ to apply a delta to a group of points, or more than one point at time. ‘Move survey point’ can do the same thing, but it is one-at-a-time
It moves the TBC points, so f you want to keep the original points you might need to work with a copy.
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 9:40 pm
@jimcox I did open a test tbc project and imported a csv file of 500 points. I then did the transformation and did add a elevation shift and it works great. And i can renumber all my points and add a prefix etc. is there a way to select the points i comped before i renumbering them. Transformation basically adds the point to the same point. So i have that same point from the imported points file and the new point same name under office entered. So i had to delete the csv file in order to keep the adjusted point. I saw where i can select by fixed adjustment etc. if there is an easy way to only select the new comped points then i can just renumber them. I am a tbc rookie so i am sure there is a way so i can add them to a new layer . Etc. and the. Select by layer to export every day. I might can read up on using macros and do it that way. I am just trying to manage the lifecycle of my project and eliminate as many unnecessary steps as possible. On any given day I could have 3 plus crews all needing different points for different layers so it is a hassle. And the way it has been done before me is not bad but I spend a lot of time exporting and navigating to different places on a server to store them. And such. Thanks for the help. Greatly appreciated. Its amazing how quickly some of the things can be done in tbc. Just thought I might be able to get my idea to work. Is all.
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 9:48 pm
I am no TBC expert – but I think the points remain selected after Transform.
If not, the ‘Selection explorer’ on the right mouse click has some save options that might work for you
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 9:50 pm
@jimcox sorry i am at a extracurricular activity of my daughter. So I see another possibility as well. Could i copy points by a layer selection etc. then renumber them. If that were possible i could select them and do the transformation. And I would have it licked as well. I am still learning how to select different points as staked and such from that fancy advanced selection tool. That query is really nice. I have so many things going on in the same area that from topo staking as built bim inventory daily that i would hate to have crews start different job files every task in the field. They might as built something and then turn around and stake something or topo something in the same area. So i would literally end up with job files with a few observations in each daily.
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 10:03 pm
You ‘should’ be able to do that.
I know you can select by layer – and you can rename points – then export as csv.
I’m just not sure how to preserve the original points if you want them in the csv too. You might need to manually combine new csv with old. Or reload the original points after you have done the transform.
I dont know if TBC can do copy/paste of a point – one would think it should – but I can’t find a copy / paste menu and CTRL C and CTRL V dont seem to do anything.
Like I say, I’m no expert here
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 10:08 pm
I agree with @jimcox, Transform Points would be my method too.
Are you talking about shifting observed points? or design entities (could be points too I guess)?
I’m trying to wrap my head around a project that needs more than one or two (global) vertical adjustments during construction. Typically it’s a targeted area, like a curb return or a building pad, that needs some field fitting, and it’s rare to go back to all of our data and shift it all together.
What type of project is this? I’m curious about the workflow and why there is a need for multiple shifts.“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
- MemberNovember 17, 2022 at 11:22 pm
@rover83 yes this is a rare project. I am still wrapping my head around it. There was an original design. So we had to certify to points the first layer of grade was correct. So we stake them out and record that. If it is in specs they move to next layer. But i have to take the as staked elevation and raise it because it has a minimum cover. So in simple terms if its a cut it??s good. That keeps going for multiple layers. Unfortunately we can just do a surface and make that work it has to be specific points chosen by client. Over and over again. So I bring in the job file and ck everything and then export the as stake points add the new minimum elevation and back to the field so when we as built next layer i rinse and repeat. Many layers and none are all done at once. So what i want is to keep the tbc project one. And place the different job files as staked to correct layer and take that and adjust. So transformed points works justhave not figured a way to rename them without losing the firs phase.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 1:21 am
Another thing you can do is use the layers in TBC like C3D and confine the original points in like the “0” layer and the transformation points in their own layer, TBC has loads of great tools and tricks I’m missing right now, so I’ll pine away about those good ol days…
that way you can create a prefix or suffix and keep them segregated and clean.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 1:33 am
@jitterboogie nice I will be trying that. I need you and rover to come train me lol. Every thing I learn to do in civil3d i try and figure out in TBC. And vice versa. Then once I feel like i am zipping through it on both i do a stop watch and making a cheat sheet for which is less key strokes or clicks and which is quicker. That way once i am down the road a bit i will be able to see which way i do things that are easier and quicker. And less chances of a blunder. I did play around today with computing points from a cad line. I believe that it was quicker in TBC than the way i was taught in civil3d. But i am sure civil3d has a million ways to do it i am learning. The more time actually getting to sit and work in TBC the more I like it. In the past it was here adjust this fix this get back to the field. So i was using more gps and least squares knowledge itself vs TBC functions at that time. Today was really the first time i went through and started sorting data by layers based on codes or point numbers and other things it allows. Man that is a sweet trick. My screen was so colorful lol. Made it so easy to pull up and FaceTime with my crew chiefs and say what??s up in this area of red points. He said man that is nice and told me what was going on. So i was able to move on. I am putting together a list of things I want to know how to do for getting a trainer in. Just trying to figure out most myself first so i can ask the right questions. To get my money worth.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 3:02 pm
Interesting project – is this a leach field for a mine by any chance?
Good for you getting all the layers set and maintaining a single database, that’s something that sadly few operators really learn to do.
I’d love to just do training again for a job. I’m about at the end of my rope with my current employer…I certainly wouldn’t mind just doing training for Trimble, but I’d have to do that through a dealer or go to work for them directly.
It’s especially discouraging after attending Dimensions last week. Surveyors are going to get steamrolled and left in the dust if we can’t adapt to emerging technology. I’ve about had it with backward-looking leadership and PMs who care for nothing but shoving work out the door.
Not to mention that surveyors are the absolute worst when it comes to purchasing tech and refusing to pay for training. No money in that. I might end up switching to the construction side, or possibly an energy firm, if things keep going the way they are.“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil Postman
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:14 pm
So many ways to select points in TBC. Why not use the point spreadsheat view in TBC, select your range and make a selection set with a logic name. You can reorder by name, date, … the options are limitless!
In the selext points dialog you can also select on (multiple) fieldcodes.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:16 pm
@rover83 pm me. If you want to go directly to Trimble i van connect you with a guy and i will tell him you would be great and it might help open a door. I was a trainer for them at dealership level and personal level for military training. That was years ago. I have no worries hanging my hat on your abilities from reading here. Yes we have technology that we buy and use as if it was still 1980. But we have fed our crews fish instead of teaching them to fish and now they can??t do what is needed.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:26 pm
@christ-lambrecht i will try this. To be honest the best thing would be to create a surface and keep raising it in the field. But we are contracted to certify to a specific point. Now I could create a surface and use that vertical and stake horizontal to the point. I could even create a new surface in the field in access but that scares the ls. So he wants everything to come through office. I am not in the field and our field folks we have ones I would trust and others need more time in the saddle. Just have not had that time that makes the hair on your neck stand up and say something is wrong. They will get to that point for sure.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:40 pm
@christ-lambrecht that is awesome. I was just playing with that. So i can sort and select and then copy or export. One step missing is a way to duplicate them in the workflow with new numbers or name and transform the elevation all in a sequence. I might have to export then bring back in and do it who knows. Many good ways. All the steps are there except doing the rename/raise elevation all at same time add new code and attach to new layer. Its all there just a few quick steps to easily make it all stay in my project.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:44 pm
that’s disheartening to read from you. That must be a very frustrating situation for you to mention it in the context of Dimensions too. If crotchety old crusty surveyors don’t want to adopt better tech then let’s just roll over them and keep going.
and free ourselves from the money pinching engineering types that control our boards too much too….
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 4:52 pm
@rover83 We either work for technology or make technology work for us. When I see 100k of surveying equipment the latest and greatest no matter what brand and it is used like itbwas from the 90??s. It saddens me. I spent 1 hour twice this week overhead teaching a crew chief a few new tricks and ideas in what to watch for on a different job. I made him learn to inverse by non data collector so he knows. I try and do this every week a little old school and new way. I don??t want them to just push a button but to know what the button is doing. And to feel comfortable enough to ck it long hand when something doesn??t feel right .
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 5:06 pm
You can just dump points into a spreadsheet and us the IF command to create an output file. It all you are doing is comparing the same point over and over…
Set Sheet 1 as master and seperate tabs for each day. You can automate export reporting with pivot tables.
- MemberNovember 18, 2022 at 5:26 pm
@stlsurveyor yeah. We are not really staking points we are staking specific points to asbuilt. Then we take the as built physical elevation and raise it and then when that layer is reasonably stake the new point and asbuilt and then take new elevation and raise it. What i have been doing is the points and just use excel to compute the new elevation and assign a new point number. All the functions in TBC will do what i want to keep all the data in the project. It just has a few missing steps to keep the new comps from messing up the raw data which is still in there. I can copy point and then raise the elevation. I can transform the points to raise elevation but it keeps same point number. Whatbi need is to raise elevation and assign new point number in as few steps as possible. So i can keep everything in my project and manage each portion of the layers in near real-time. I am trying to cut out extra steps in excel. I want to update the different csv files for my field crews as quickly as possible so i can work other projects. It??s just about shaving minutes off because this is being done several times a day a few points here few points there all at different layers on the ground. I could literally comp 4 points for one layer and 500 for another. In the field i did this myself. But they want it to be done on office side. So a file is sent job file. I bring in export what is needed and do it in excel.
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